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One of the most debated—and most weaponized—chapters in the New Testament is Ephesians 5.

"Wives, submit to your husbands..."

For centuries, those few words have been used to justify unhealthy marriages, reinforce patriarchal power structures, and silence women. But is that actually what the author intended?

In this episode, Mark and Jeanne step beneath the surface of the text to explore its historical world, its literary context, and the surprising ways the earliest Christians actually read Scripture.

Rather than treating Ephesians as a timeless rulebook, they ask a deeper question:

What happens when we read this passage the way its first readers would have?

In This Episode

• Why most critical Bible scholars do not believe Paul wrote Ephesians
• What "Deutero-Pauline" letters are—and why they matter
• The difference between evangelical and historical-critical approaches to Scripture
• How ancient Christians learned to read the Bible through allegory rather than literalism
• Why Origen believed difficult passages were invitations to look deeper
• How Greek philosophy shaped Christian ideas of biblical inspiration
• Aristotle's household code and why Ephesians is responding to it
• Why "submit to one another" changes everything
• The Greek word hypotassō and what it actually means
• Why the command to husbands receives far more attention than the command to wives
• How Ephesians simultaneously reflects its ancient culture while moving beyond it
• Why this passage is actually more progressive than many people realize
• What healthy leadership and mutual self-sacrifice look like in modern relationships
• Why Scripture is best understood as a living tradition rather than a frozen instruction manual

Books Mentioned

HarperCollins Study Bible
One of the best English-language study Bibles from a historical-critical perspective, with extensive notes, historical context, and references beyond the biblical canon.

Sarah Ruden — Paul Among the People
An accessible exploration of Paul within the Greco-Roman world that helps readers understand controversial passages on women, slavery, and culture.

N. T. Wright — Paul: A Biography
A readable introduction to Paul's life, theology, and historical context from one of today's leading New Testament scholars.

Ancient Voices

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

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Mark and Eric friend talk about a poem called Strong and Kind, and explore the opportunity for growth that discomfort affords those with eyes to see and ears to hear. But it is important to grow intentionally: strong and kind. This poem is why. We hope you love this episode! (We felt we owed you some studio time! haha)

Heart,

Mark and Eric

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

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Mark and an old friend talk about what to do with Paul when he drives you crazy. Mark gives an overview of Paul's world of growing up in Tarsus and training in Jerusalem, and then we walk through a list of the reasons he believes most modern Christians would like Paul more than they might expect. And if you disagree you're prolly just not chosen. That was a joke. haha

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

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Mark and Eric friend talk about AI, humanity's search for meaning, how to think about redemption, and what to do in these strange times. We hope you love this extended episode! (We felt we owed you some studio time! haha)

Heart,

Mark and Eric

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

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Mark and an old friend talk about faith and doubt and specifically, how to think about sacred texts as a modern, the character of God recovering from violence, and why sometimes fiction tells the truth better.

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

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Mark and an old friend talk about faith and doubt and specifically, the "scandal of the particular." Walter Breuggemann coined this term to hold in tension what it means if the God of the Bible is true, personal, and good over and against a vague conception of God or God as deist/clockmaker, or God as uninvolved and dispassionate. We hope you love it!!

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

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Merry Christmas friends! kk here goes:

HOUSE OF THE WORLD.

Ancient story and artifact meets lo-fi and Mediterranean hip hop in this journey to reclaim the art of the Bible’s creation story. Poetry… in cosmological motion. haha!

HOUSE OF THE WORLD was craft-brewed to give you the wisdom that our end is in our beginning.

If you grew up with the Bible and it seemed like you were the only one who had serious questions about the creation story... here is a way forward with full acceptance of science and reason applied to ancient literature in context.

We think this can profoundly help you rediscover who you are and what you are here to do and how to hold the sacred text of your childhood now that you've grown up.

Along the way you'll

• learn how the world made in Genesis 1 is less "planet spinning in space and more cosmic snow globe floating safely through chaos waters."
• discover how in creation myths, the creator God makes the world by separating into realms (sky, land, sea) and assigning roles (flying things, land animals, sea creatures).
• observe what it means in context to be made in the statue (צלם) of the divine counsel and ask "what is the best way to be a divine counsel mini-figure anyways?"
• meet a lovable collection of archetypal-first-humans from near Eastern Literature and consider what the first humans in first human stories actually represent.
• explore ancient artifacts and musings from ancient literature like the Book of the Dead and the Epic of Gilgamesh to Seneca, New Testament authors, and Rabbinic Midrash Agaddah.

At the end of the day, we made HOUSE OF THE WORLD to help you reclaim ancient story for a better tomorrow. See you inside!

Be good to each other!

Mark and Eric

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

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A friend of the show and I continue talking about faith and doubt. This episode we chat about how to be sincere friends with people we love all across the spectrum of faith and doubt. Serving your atheist friend might be the most Christian thing you can do. A lot of times being right is less important than being in healthy relationships.

We also talk about how many people frame God in very specific ways-- God is the judgmental father in the sky, God is like Santa Clause, God is like an angry storm God-- but this imagery often comes out our own wounds and disappointment.

Then we pivot and talk more about faith in God and particularly Christianity is not a religion, it is a creed. At least for Mark, he tries to let go of faith as being convinced of uncertain theological tenets or even miracles, and instead about binding yourself to an ethical creed centered around the teachings of Jesus.

We hope you love it!

For Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com.

You can find all of social handles here:

TEXT AND ROCK SOCIALS.

Want to support the show, experience our best creative work, buy one of our books or give an uncommonly better gift or art and heart? Ha! Head to the TEXT AND ROCK DIGITAL PRESS.