Learning Through Play: How Boddle Built Educational Games That Kids Actually Want

In this insightful conversation, Matt Watson talks with Clarence Tan, founder and CEO of Boddle Learning, about their journey building educational games that have reached over 10 million users. Clarence shares how they tackled the classic problem of educational games - how to make them as engaging as regular games while maintaining educational value. By creating fun games first and then "sneaking in" learning content, Boddle has found success in the competitive educational technology space.

The most valuable lesson? Get out of the office and actually watch users interact with your product. Rather than spending money on complex analytics, the Boddle team discovered their biggest product issues simply by visiting classrooms and observing how kids used their app. Clarence also shares how they eventually cracked the monetization code by understanding that parents were buying subscriptions not because they understood the educational benefits, but because their kids wanted the in-game items.

🔗 Essential Links (Start Here!):

Full Episodes: https://product-driven.captivate.fm/episodes

Connect with Matt Watson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattwatsonkc/

Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://newsletter.productdriven.com/

Powered by Full Scale: https://fullscale.io/

GET THE PRODUCT DRIVEN BOOK: https://productdriven.com/book

Check out Boddle here: https://www.boddlelearning.com/

Key Discussion Points:

🎮 Building educational games that are genuinely fun first

🧠 How Boddle "sneaks in" learning content after establishing engaging gameplay

💰 The journey from zero users to 10 million through COVID and beyond

📊 Why watching actual users beats fancy analytics tools

🔑 The monetization breakthrough: understanding kids are the real decision makers

🚀 Pivoting from building many games to focusing on the most successful one

📱 How Boddle connects with both teachers and parents

Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction and Welcome

00:46 - Origins of Boddle Learning

02:08 - Making Education Fun Through Games

04:17 - Early Funding and Productization

05:36 - Impact of COVID on Growth

07:42 - Getting on the White House Educational Resources List

08:19 - Server Challenges with Rapid Growth

09:04 - Moving to Tulsa for VC Funding

10:30 - The "Leaky Bucket" Discovery

11:21 - Monetization Challenges

13:57 - Finding the Most Popular Game Mode

14:51 - The Pet Battle Game Success

15:58 - NFT Experiment Mistakes

16:52 - Keeping Education in Fun Games

18:45 - The Power of Classroom Observation

20:47 - First-Time User Experience Issues

22:32 - Learning to Sell to Parents Through Kids

25:40 - Tapping Into the Entertainment Wallet

26:45 - Boddle Bucks and Future Growth

27:38 - Impact and Educational Value

Ready to transform your child's screen time into learning time? Visit https://www.boddlelearning.com/ to try their educational games that kids actually want to play!

In this enlightening conversation with author Ashley Davis, Matt Watson explores the concept of feedback-driven development and how it shapes effective software engineering practices. Ashley, author of "Bootstrapping Microservices" and the upcoming "The Feedback-Driven Developer," shares valuable insights on how developers can leverage feedback loops to enhance their productivity, make better decisions, and deliver more value to customers. They discuss the shifting landscape of software development in the age of AI, the importance of personal feedback systems, and why understanding product priorities is crucial for modern developers.

🔗 Essential Links:

🔗 Essential Links (Start Here!):

Full Episodes: https://product-driven.captivate.fm/episodes

Connect with Matt Watson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattwatsonkc/

Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://fullscaleteam.com/newsletter

Get our FREE Ebook: https://fullscaleteam.com/productfirstteams

Powered by Full Scale: https://fullscale.io/

GET THE PRODUCT DRIVEN BOOK: https://productdriven.com/book

Ashley Davis on Twitter: @ashleydavis75

"Bootstrapping Microservices" book: Manning.com/books/bootstrapping-microservices-with-docker-kubernetes-and-terraform

"The Feedback-Driven Developer" (Early Access): Manning.com

Key Discussion Points:

🔄 The concept of personal feedback loops in the development process

🎯 How prioritizing by "value over cost to deliver" leads to better decisions

🔍 The critical importance of getting clarity before diving into code

🚀 Why prototyping is one of the most effective feedback mechanisms

🤖 How AI is shifting the bottleneck from engineering to product decision-making

⚠️ The pitfall of "moving fast in the wrong direction" with AI assistance

🧩 Techniques for self-review and maintaining working code

🏗️ When microservices architecture makes sense (and when it doesn't)

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction and Welcome

00:25 - The Experience of Being a Tech Book Author

00:53 - Origins of "The Feedback-Driven Developer" Book

02:11 - Defining "Feedback" in Software Development

03:52 - The Importance of Understanding Trade-offs

05:35 - Ensuring You're Working on the Right Thing

07:34 - Getting Feedback on Implementation Approaches

09:06 - Clarity as the Fuel of Software Development

11:16 - AI's Impact on the Software Development Bottleneck

13:13 - Why the Best Developers Think Like Product Owners

14:54 - Process Theater vs. Value Delivery

16:19 - Building Feedback into Your Development Loop

17:23 - Production Monitoring and Performance Feedback

19:32 - Key Insights and Aha Moments from the Book

22:44 - Developers QA-ing Their Own Code

25:21 - When to Use Microservices Architecture

27:43 - Book Information and Closing Thoughts

Ready to transform your development process with effective feedback systems? Get early access to "The Feedback-Driven Developer" at

Bootstrapping vs VC: John Rush on Building 25 Successful Products 🚀

In this enlightening episode of Product Driven, host Matt Watson sits down with serial tech entrepreneur John Rush. Known for his prominent presence on social media platforms like Twitter (X) and LinkedIn, John shares his journey from VC-backed companies to successfully bootstrapping 25 different startups over the past 15 years. The conversation explores the stark differences between venture-backed and bootstrapped business models, the importance of UX in product development, and how focusing on solving specific problems has led to his remarkable success.

John provides valuable insights on identifying your strengths as a founder, why empathy for users matters more than code quality, and his unique approach to product development that allows him to launch multiple successful tools with minimal failure rapidly. His clear vision of building a lasting company that helps bootstrappers achieve a better work-life balance inspires developers considering the entrepreneurial path.

🔗 Essential Links (Start Here!):

Full Episodes: https://product-driven.captivate.fm/episodes

Connect with Matt Watson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattwatsonkc/

Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://newsletter.productdriven.com/

Powered by Full Scale: https://fullscale.io/

Chapters:

00:03 - Introduction to John Rush

00:31 - Thoughts on the "Indie Hacker" term

02:06 - VC-backed vs. Bootstrapped business models

04:30 - Creating and managing 25 different products

06:23 - Product success rate and failure assessment

08:32 - The seven tools driving 90% of revenue

11:22 - Competing in crowded markets

13:53 - Technology stack and code sharing across products

15:50 - The critical importance of UX in product design

23:19 - Approach to advertising and marketing

25:48 - Advice for software engineers considering entrepreneurship

30:57 - Long-term vision and goals

32:31 - Final words of wisdom

Transform your product development journey! Dive deeper into the entrepreneurial mindset that drives successful tech innovations. Whether you're a seasoned founder or just beginning your startup adventure, these resources will help you navigate the path with confidence and vision. 🚀