In this episode of the Law and Beyond Show, Chantal McNaught interviews Ashley Kelso, a mechatronics engineer turned lawyer and legal tech entrepreneur. Ashley will take you on his unique journey from engineering to law, the importance of an engineering mindset in legal practice, and the challenges of adopting technology in the legal field. The conversation also touches on ethics in decision-making, collaboration in law, and advice for those looking to innovate in LegalTech.

Chantal and Ash unpack:

• What motivated Ash to transition from engineering to law due to career stagnation in engineering.
• Engineers often have a holistic approach that can benefit legal practice.
• Communication issues often lead to project failures in engineering and law.
• Ethics is a crucial part of decision-making in law.
• Law should be treated as a team sport for better outcomes.
• Technology adoption in law firms is often slow and cautious.
• Legal tech should be seen as an investment, not just a cost.
• Point solutions in LegalTech require less behaviour change from users than system solutions like practice management software.
• Understanding the self-interest of decision-makers is key for engineers.
• Simplicity and iteration are important in tech development.

Useful Links:

• More about Ash's company, HiveLight
• Goodreads: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
• Goodreads: Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't by Jim Collins
• Goodreads: The Courage to Be Disliked: A single book can change your life by Ichiro Kishimi | Goodreads

The PwC information barrier controversy was a situation where the consulting company were briefing the Australian Taxation Office about taxation legislation and at the same time providing private client advice on the upcoming changes. More about this can be read from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation here.

Host Chantal McNaught talks with Dye & Durham’s APAC MD, Carl Olson, about ALPMA’s Changing Legal Landscape report. They discuss the near-ubiquitous AI trial among practitioners, widening governance gaps, the sharp rise in wellbeing initiatives, and the real psychological load of cybersecurity incidents. Carl outlines what forward-facing firms are actually doing: holistic programmes that blend policy, process, capability-building, and technology. The conversation also challenges assumptions about flexible work and the four-day week, and why the best research often leaves us with more questions than tidy answers.

Carl and Chantal reveal:

• The scope of the report and the importance of this research.
• Wellbeing momentum and clear implementation gaps.
• Generative AI adoption and where firms are looking to improve on governance.
• Challenging the stereotype that lawyers are slow adopters.
• Cybersecurity priorities and the cost of hypervigilance and leadership stress.
• What leading firms do through holistic transformation.
• Carl's favourite song.

Links

• Deep dive into the research discussed from the Changing Legal Landscape Report
• More information about the Australasian Law Practice Managers Association (ALPMA) is available here: https://www.alpma.com.au/research/
• Here is the Cyber Security Emotional Wellness Checklist by Professor Liz Howard mentioned on the show.

Disclosure: This episode was brought to you by the generosity of Dye & Durham APAC. Without partners like Dye & Durham, we would not be able to produce this content for listeners. In the development of this episode, we have retained full editorial control.

Correction: Carl described a cyber security incident occurring from the New South Wales "Reconstruction Agency". The incident involved the New South Wales Reconstruction Authority and that was a data breach. More about this data breach can be read here.

𝗛𝗼𝘄 𝗱𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗯𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼𝗴𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝗽𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗺𝗮𝗻𝗮𝗴𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁, 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗔𝗜 — 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝗶𝘁 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗸 𝗮𝘁 𝗴𝗹𝗼𝗯𝗮𝗹 𝘀𝗰𝗮𝗹𝗲?

At 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗜𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘃𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗟𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟱 𝗦𝘆𝗱𝗻𝗲𝘆, we spoke with Ronnie Gurion, COO of Clio, about the company’s next chapter — one shaped by bold acquisitions, AI innovation, and an unwavering focus on culture.

💡 𝗞𝗲𝘆 𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲𝗮𝘄𝗮𝘆𝘀:

👉 The vLex acquisition brings the world’s largest legal research database and AI assistant (Vincent AI) into Clio’s ecosystem.

👉 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗪𝗼𝗿𝗸 combines practice management, legal research, and AI-powered insights into one unified experience.

👉 The launch of 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗘𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗽𝗿𝗶𝘀𝗲 signals a strong push into the large-firm and in-house counsel market.

👉 Despite rapid growth, Clio’s foundation remains its 𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝗻𝗴, 𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻-𝗱𝗿𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗻 𝗰𝘂𝗹𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲 — one that prizes alignment, integrity, and collaboration.

Ronnie summed it up best: “𝙒𝙞𝙩𝙝 𝙣𝙚𝙖𝙧𝙡𝙮 500 𝙚𝙣𝙜𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙙𝙪𝙘𝙩 𝙡𝙚𝙖𝙙𝙚𝙧𝙨 𝙖𝙩 𝘾𝙡𝙞𝙤, 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙨𝙠𝙮’𝙨 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙡𝙞𝙢𝙞𝙩 — 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙞𝙩 𝙖𝙡𝙡 𝙨𝙩𝙖𝙧𝙩𝙨 𝙬𝙞𝙩𝙝 𝙨𝙩𝙖𝙮𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙩𝙧𝙪𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙬𝙝𝙤 𝙬𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙚.”

Chapters

00:00Introduction and Overview of Clio's Strategy

02:38The VLex Acquisition and Its Significance

05:18Expanding into the Enterprise Market

07:53Maintaining Culture and Customer Satisfaction

#PeopleInLegal #Clio #LegalTech #AI #Innovation #ClioInnovateLegal #Leadership #LegalIndustry #Culture #AccessToJustice

𝗪𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗶𝗳 𝟳𝟳% 𝗼𝗳 𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝗶𝘀𝘀𝘂𝗲𝘀 𝗻𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝗻𝗲𝗲𝗱𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗴𝗼 𝘂𝗻𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝗹𝘃𝗲𝗱 — 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗔𝗜 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝗰𝗹𝗼𝘀𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗷𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗴𝗮𝗽?At 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗼 𝗜𝗻𝗻𝗼𝘃𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗟𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟱 𝗦𝘆𝗱𝗻𝗲𝘆, Jack Newton, CEO of Clio, shared how their vision goes far beyond legal software — it’s about transforming the entire legal experience for all.

AI, he believes, will play a pivotal role in bridging the justice gap by:

👉 Reducing the friction and cost of accessing legal help.

👉 Helping consumers recognise when they have a legal issue.

👉 Empowering lawyers to deliver better outcomes, faster and more efficiently.

👉 Unifying the business and practice of law into one intelligent platform.

As Jack put it, “𝗔𝗜 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗲𝗻𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲 𝗹𝗮𝘄𝘆𝗲𝗿𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝘀𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗲 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 — 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗳𝗲𝘄𝗲𝗿 — 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗲 $𝟯 𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝘂𝗻𝗺𝗲𝘁 𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗸𝗲𝘁 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝗼𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁𝘂𝗻𝗶𝘁𝘆.

”In a world where technology often feels distant, this conversation was a reminder that AI in law isn’t about replacing humans — it’s about helping more people get the help they deserve.

Chapters

00:00Trends in Legal Technology

02:45Access to Justice and AI's Role

05:16Transforming Legal Services for Consumers

#PeopleInLegal #Clio #LegalTech #AccessToJustice hashtag#AI #Innovation #LegalIndustry #ClioInnovateLegal #LegalExperience

CONTENT WARNING: We kept some details in this episode to maintain the genuine grit of criminal law practice. Listener discretion is advised.

In this episode of the Law and Beyond Show, host Chantal McNaught sits down with Jack Scott, Senior Prosecutor with the Queensland Police Service, to explore the fascinating and often gritty world of criminal law.

Jack shares how his journey to the courtroom was anything but straightforward. Jack walks through his experience of struggling with vision impairment and leaving private practice, to nearly dropping out of law entirely before rediscovering his passion for advocacy.

With humour, candour, and insight, Jack opens up about:

• What daily life as a police prosecutor really involves.
• His reflections on what it means to be a modern day advocate.
• Navigating law as both a business and a calling.
• The hard realities of working in the criminal justice system.
• How technology and AI are already reshaping crime, courts, and the legal profession.
• Why sometimes nostalgia (think: CRT monitors and Pokémon) offers unexpected lessons on resilience and perspective.

Links

• ⁠Queensland influencer accused of drugging her baby daughter with anticonvulsant medication, court told - ABC News⁠

A unique and lively conversation that highlights the human side of law, this episode will resonate with lawyers, students, academics, and anyone curious about where the legal profession is headed.

WE'RE BACK: In this episode of The Law and Beyond Show, host Chantal McNaught sits down with internationally respected consultant, speaker, and author Simon Tupman.

After an early career as a solicitor in England, Simon transitioned into consulting and has spent over three decades helping law firms and legal professionals navigate challenges of leadership, business structure, and cultural change. His latest book, The Heart of Practice, distils insights from leaders across the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, tackling the profession’s greatest Achilles heel: leadership.

Simon and Chantal explore:

• The enduring tension between law as a profession vs. law as a business.
• Why leadership, not just management, is vital for the health of law firms.
• The four pillars of effective leadership: self, people, business, and community.
• How commercialization and pluralism shape the modern legal services industry.
• What it takes to shift from “being a lawyer” to “being a leader.”
• Why lawyers need to embrace their higher purpose of helping people and society.

Along the way, Simon shares stories from his personal journey, including a surprising tale from the South of France with lessons in freedom, connection, and reflection.

If you’ve ever wondered what it really takes to lead in law—or how to align purpose, professionalism, and business in turbulent times—this episode offers both wisdom and practical insight.

Links:

• The Heart of Practice — Simon Tupman – Law firm management consultant
• Law Chat Webcast Series — Simon Tupman – Law firm management consultant

🎙 People in Legal – 𝗪𝗼𝗺𝗲𝗻 + 𝗔𝗜 𝗦𝘂𝗺𝗺𝗶𝘁 𝗘𝗱𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 💡At the Women + AI Summit, David Woolstencroft spoke with Anna Golovsky about her role in legal tech, the value of diversity, and the practical challenges of AI adoption.From starting small with proof of concepts to building strong vendor partnerships, the conversation highlighted how curiosity, collaboration, and active engagement are essential to transforming legal service delivery.💡 Key takeaways: ↳ 𝗗𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗱𝗿𝗶𝘃𝗲𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗼𝘂𝘁𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗲𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝗹𝗲𝗴𝗮𝗹 𝘁𝗲𝗰𝗵 ↳ 𝗣𝗿𝗼𝗼𝗳 𝗼𝗳 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗰𝗲𝗽𝘁𝘀 𝗲𝗻𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗶𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 ↳ 𝗥𝗢𝗜 𝗶𝘀 𝗸𝗲𝘆 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝘂𝗶𝗹𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮 𝗰𝗮𝘀𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗔𝗜 ↳ 𝗩𝗲𝗻𝗱𝗼𝗿𝘀 𝗺𝘂𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗮𝗶𝗹𝗼𝗿 𝘀𝗼𝗹𝘂𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝗰𝗹𝗶𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗻𝗲𝗲𝗱𝘀 ↳ 𝗖𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗾𝘂𝗶𝗿𝗲𝘀 𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗮𝗴𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁, 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗽𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗼𝗯𝘀𝗲𝗿𝘃𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 ↳ 𝗔𝗜 𝗳𝗲𝗮𝗿𝘀 𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗱𝗼𝗽𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 – 𝗲𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗱𝗶𝗮𝗹𝗼𝗴𝘂𝗲 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗰𝗿𝘂𝗰𝗶𝗮𝗹🙌 Thanks to Terri Mottershead, Cat Moon, Caryn Sandler, The Centre for Legal Innovation, Vanderbilt University Law School, and Gilbert + Tobin for making the Women + AI Summit such an impactful event.

At the Women + AI Summit, David Woolstencroft spoke with Bernadette Hyland-Wood, PhD about integrating AI in legal practices, from the promise and pitfalls of Microsoft Copilot to the importance of regulation, education, and ethics for small law firms.They also explored the role of women in technology, the power of community support, and why AI should complement—not replace—human expertise.💡 Key takeaways: ↳ Responsible AI usage is essential for legal practices ↳ Microsoft Copilot offers potential but carries risks of data contamination ↳ Regulation and education are critical for safe AI adoption ↳ Over-reliance on AI can erode professional skills ↳ Ethics and transparency are vital for trust in AI ↳ Community support strengthens AI adoption and best practices🙌 Thanks to Terri Mottershead, Cat Moon, Caryn Sandler, The Centre for Legal Innovation, Vanderbilt University Law School, and Gilbert + Tobin for making the Women + AI Summit such an impactful event.