Episodes

  • PPP 482 | The PM Readiness Iron Triangle and How It Can Transform Your Career, with Kayla Quijas

    PPP 482 | The PM Readiness Iron Triangle and How It Can Transform Your Career, with Kayla Quijas
    Oct 31 2025
    Summary In this episode, Andy talks with Kayla Quijas, founder of Kayla Q Career Coaching. Kayla's journey from cake decorator to Senior Project Manager at a global law firm is anything but conventional, and it's that transformation that fuels her work helping others break into and thrive in project management. At the heart of the discussion is Kayla's signature framework, the PM Readiness Iron Triangle, which focuses on three key pillars: credentials, experience, and network. You'll hear how to assess your readiness for a PM role, even if you don't come from a traditional background, and what to do if one leg of your triangle feels weak. In this conversation, Kayla shares practical ways to reframe your experience into project management language, advice for overcoming fear and imposter syndrome, and how to network without feeling sleazy or self-promotional. If you're looking for insights on how to grow your project management career—even if you're already PMP-certified—this episode is for you! Sound Bites "With this triangle, you need to be strong in at least two and then figure out where you're weak and shore that one up.""Before that, I was not getting any interviews. And then after that, I landed a project management job pretty quickly.""It is selfish not to share your thoughts because you're afraid people will judge you.""Networking doesn't have to be sleazy. Come at it from a give first perspective.""I got put on a PIP once for a project management job. That was one of the most sinking feelings that I had ever had.""Studying for the PMP, even if you don't take the test, can be a game-changer for your confidence and credibility.""Most of what you're doing in your current role is already project management. You just haven't labeled it that way yet.""You don't need a perfect resume to get hired. You need to tell a better story about your experience." Chapters 00:00 Introduction01:32 Start of Interview02:00 Kayla's Journey from Cake Decorator to Senior PM03:20 Pivotal Career Decisions04:20 What Kayla Did After Quitting Her Job06:00 Introducing the PM Readiness Iron Triangle07:40 How Kayla Came Up With the Triangle09:00 A Real-Life Success Story Using the Triangle11:00 Is the PMP Worth It?13:00 Benefits Beyond the Certification17:00 What If You Don't Have Enough Experience?18:25 Examples of Overlooked Project Experience20:00 How to Translate Experience into PM Language24:10 Turning a Project Into a Resume Story26:00 Reframing Networking So It Feels Authentic30:20 Kayla's Mastermind Group Strategy35:10 Giving Value Without Chasing Metrics36:24 About the PM Readiness Assessment37:14 End of Interview37:50 Andy Comments After the Interview42:55 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Kayla and her work at KaylaQCareerCoaching.com. Take the PM Readiness Assessment here: PM Readiness Assessment Connect with Kayla on LinkedIn: Kayla's LinkedIn Profile For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 474 with Stuart Taylor. It's a candid discussion about LinkedIn, our careers, and the role of AI.Episode 465 with Kari Mirabal. You'll get practical strategies for building professional relationships.Episode 258, also with Kari Mirabal. She shares even more insights on networking and career growth.Episode 39 with Devora Zack about her book Networking for People Who Hate Networking. Level Up Your AI Skills Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future. Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks! Pass the PMP Exam This Year If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you, too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Business Acumen Topics: Project Management, Career Growth, PMP Certification, Networking, Leadership, Resume Writing, Personal Branding, Professional Development, Coaching, Confidence Building, Interviewing, Career Transitions The following music was used for this episode: Music: Quantum Sparks Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/...
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    46 mins
  • PPP 481 | Why Great Managers Add Zero Value and Why That is Good News, with author Matthew Ley

    PPP 481 | Why Great Managers Add Zero Value and Why That is Good News, with author Matthew Ley
    Oct 22 2025
    Summary In this episode, Andy talks with Matt Ley about his new book Manage Your Gaps: Reclaiming the Awesomeness of Management. Matt challenges the myths and misunderstandings around management, explaining why clarity between contributors, managers, and leaders is key to organizational performance. You'll hear why he says managers are "multipliers" of value, how to recognize when you're being overled or overmanaged, and why he believes managers are not "junior leaders." Matt introduces his EP!C Management model: Environment, Performance, Identity, and Communication. It's a tactical framework designed to help managers activate and optimize their teams. He also shares practical ideas for improving one-on-ones, measuring success, and even applying these same principles at home through the Four Cs: Care, Clarity, Consistency, and Communication. If you're looking for actionable insights to sharpen your management skills and strengthen your team's performance, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "The thing is, managers are zero value add.""Contribution is all about working in the business. Management's all about working on the business and leadership's all about working on the future.""A manager is someone who's titled with making sure that they're multiplying the value of that organization.""A leader's job is to look up and out. So their job is to define the new, whereas a manager's accountability is to look down and in. So their job is to refine the now.""If you're not doing one-on-ones on a regular, consistent basis? That to me is the beating drum and the heartbeat of management.""It's really hard to feel successful in something if you don't have two things. One, you need a definition of what you're doing. And you need a measurement of how you're doing against it.""We reflect on the different roles that we play, that we call four hats: our professional hat, our personal hat, our partner hat, and our professional parent." Chapters 00:00 Introduction01:38 Start of Interview02:00 Family Influence on Leadership04:00 Career Journey to EP!C Model07:20 Rethinking Roles as Spokes09:40 Managers vs. Leaders12:40 Over-Led or Over-Managed15:20 Zero Value Add Concept17:20 Introducing the EP!C Model20:20 Identity in Management22:20 One Practical Management Tip24:00 Applying EP!C at Home26:14 End of Interview26:37 Andy Comments After the Interview Learn More You can learn more about Matt and his work at ManageYourGaps.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 363 with Roger Martin. Roger typically shows up in the Thinkers50 Top 10 and shares key management lessons that complement this discussion.Episode 47 with Henry Mintzberg. It's a candid, entertaining conversation with one of the most influential management thinkers of our time.Episode 11 with Susan Scott. Based on her book Fierce Leadership, this episode explores powerful communication and management lessons that still hold up today. Level Up Your AI Skills Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future. Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks! Pass the PMP Exam This Year If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you, too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Business Acumen Topics: Leadership, Management, Role Clarity, Team Performance, Organizational Design, Communication, One-On-Ones, Change Management, Coaching, Strategic Thinking, Team Culture, Manager Development The following music was used for this episode: Music: The Fantastical Ferrett by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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    34 mins
  • PPP 480 | What If You Managed Your Life Like a Project? Insights from Coach Tony Weaver

    PPP 480 | What If You Managed Your Life Like a Project? Insights from Coach Tony Weaver
    Oct 7 2025
    Summary In this episode, Andy welcomes Coach Tony Weaver, author of Project Manage Your Life: Your Blueprint for Achieving Any Goal — One Step at a Time. After decades of leading complex IT, marketing, and transformation projects, Tony turned his project management skills inward and used them to lose over 100 pounds. That journey sparked a new mission: helping others apply the same proven methods to their own goals, whether it’s health, finances, career, or just finally following through on something important. In this conversation, you’ll hear how to turn vague intentions into measurable, motivating goals. Tony shares how to break down big ambitions into doable milestones, track your progress without becoming a slave to the data, and stay consistent with joy instead of burnout. He unpacks what SMART goals actually look like in the real world and explains why the project mindset can transform not just what you achieve, but how you feel while doing it. If you’re looking for practical ideas to move forward on goals that matter to you, at work or at home, this episode is for you! Sound Bites “Project management absolutely changed my life.”“Life is agile.”“Every goal is a project. Project management is just applying structure to that goal.”“Your brain doesn’t care about your happiness. It cares about keeping you safe. That’s why it resists change.”“Once you build confidence in yourself, the goal you set becomes just a jumping-off point.”“Setting a goal is an act of hope. It says that tomorrow can be better than today.”“Track what you can control. Influence is important, but control drives change.”“Focus on the things you control. Keep an eye on the results, but don't obsess about them.”“The safest place to be is in your comfort zone, not trying.”“Some numbers matter. Some are interesting. Some aren't even interesting.”“Letting a goal die of loneliness? That's a recipe for regret.” Chapters 00:00 Introduction01:36 Start of Interview02:00 How Project Management Led to a New Mission06:14 Mentorship, Coaching, and Project Management in Life07:40 What Project Management Looks Like in Everyday Terms11:20 Why Good Intentions Don’t Lead to Change13:10 Why Most People Don’t Set Goals15:24 Setting a Goal as an Act of Hope18:00 Common Goal-Setting Mistakes and How to Fix Them21:30 Building a Plan that Actually Works for You23:50 Why You Should Plan Celebration, Not Just Completion24:38 How to Track Progress Without Obsessing Over Data29:20 The Danger of Focusing Too Much on Lagging Indicators30:45 Two Client Success Stories34:34 Where to Learn More About Coach Tony35:28 End of Interview36:03 Andy Comments After the Interview39:05 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Tony and his work at OperationMelt.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 376 with Nick Sonnenberg. It’s an episode about how to stop drowning in work, and though the focus is more about life on the job, there are so many ideas from Nick that can help you in your personal life.Episode 81 with Ben Snyder, where we talk about how everything is a project. We’re always working on projects, and there are so many ways to apply our project knowledge to other areas of life.Episode 17 with John Wittry. It’s perhaps more of a time management episode, but it’s about taking back your life, and there’s a theme for how project management ideas can apply. Level Up Your AI Skills During these interviews, I often mention our AI Made Simple course. Join other listeners from around the world who are taking this course to prepare for an AI-infused future. Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks! Pass the PMP Exam This Year If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we’ve put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We’ve helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we’d love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I’d love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that’s why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It’s 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it’s all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Ways of Working Topics: Goal Setting, Project Management, Productivity, SMART Goals, Personal Growth, Behavior Change, Tracking Progress, Milestones, Motivation, Self-Leadership, Coaching, Resilience The following music was used for this episode: Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://...
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    46 mins
  • PPP 479 | The AI Skills You Need to Stay Relevant, with Matt Mong

    PPP 479 | The AI Skills You Need to Stay Relevant, with Matt Mong
    Sep 30 2025
    Summary In this episode, Andy interviews Matt Mong, a leader at PlanAutomate, a company focused on bringing intelligent automation to the world of project management. With AI dominating headlines, Matt joins the podcast to explore what's real, what's hype, and what project managers and frontline leaders should actually be doing to stay ahead. They discuss common misconceptions about AI in projects, why structured data is critical, and how AI can evolve from productivity booster to strategic game-changer. Matt shares practical advice on balancing innovation with data privacy, how project roles may shift over time, and what leaders can do today to prepare ourselves (and even our kids) for the future of work. If you're looking for insights on how to stay relevant in an AI-transformed workplace, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "The real question isn't just what AI can do faster. It's what it can do that we couldn't do before.""We tend to overestimate what AI will do in two years and underestimate what it will do in ten.""If you don't get your data in order, AI won't be useful. It's as simple as that.""This isn't about eliminating jobs. It's about empowering people to lead and collaborate better.""Don't future-proof your job. Prepare for the future by experimenting and adapting.""What if your projects could talk to you and give ongoing guidance? That's where we're heading." Chapters 00:00 Introduction02:00 Start of Interview02:06 What's Something About AI or Projects That Drives You Crazy?05:00 How Are You Personally Using AI at Work or Home?07:00 How Are Customers Using AI Today? And Where Is It Heading?12:06 What About Concerns With Data Privacy and Security?15:00 What Other Risks or Opportunities Should Leaders Be Thinking About?17:22 Do You Agree That 'AI Won't Take Your Job. Someone Using AI Will'?19:40 What Mindsets or Skills Should People Build Now?23:52 How Can We Prepare Our Kids for the Future of Work?27:47 Where Can People Learn More About You and PlanAutomate?29:00 End of Interview29:20 Andy Comments After the Interview33:14 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Matt and his work at PlanAutomate.com. You can take the survey that Matt mentions here: https://www.planautomate.com/survey-state-of-ai-in-project-management/ For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 463 with Faisal Hoque. He has an empowering take on how to transcend the fear and hype around AI. It's a great discussion.Episode 415 with leaders from the software company Keto Software. It's a great follow-up to this discussion, with some guys who have been in this space for many years.Episode 384 with PMeLa, an AI persona that I've been curating for a couple of years. She was the first AI to be interviewed on a leadership or project management podcast ever. In fact, YOU can talk with PMeLa here. Level Up Your AI Skills During the interview, I mentioned our AI Made Simple course. Join other listeners from around the world who are taking this course to prepare for an AI-infused future. Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks! Pass the PMP Exam This Year If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Business Acumen Topics: AI, Automation, Project Management, Future of Work, Innovation, Data Privacy, Intelligent Systems, Team Leadership, Experimentation, Upskilling, Technology Strategy, Digital Transformation The following music was used for this episode: Music: The Fantastical Ferret by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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    38 mins
  • PPP 478 | Today Was Fun: Why Great Teams Don't Dread Monday, with author Bree Groff

    PPP 478 | Today Was Fun: Why Great Teams Don't Dread Monday, with author Bree Groff
    Sep 26 2025
    Summary In this episode, Andy talks with Bree Groff, transformation consultant, speaker, and author of Today Was Fun: A Book About Work (Seriously). Bree challenges the idea that work must be draining to be valuable, offering a refreshing and practical vision for how leaders can help teams thrive, and even enjoy, their workdays. They explore how her upbringing shaped her perspective on work, why so many teams normalize burnout and busyness, and how leaders can model a healthier, more joyful approach. Bree introduces rituals, such as user manuals and daily check-ins, that foster trust and psychological safety, and she explains what it means to build "cozy teams" that perform through connection. You'll also hear her take on performative professionalism and how to lead without losing your humanity. If you're looking for ways to lead with more energy, authenticity, and yes, fun, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "Most work, most days, should be fun.""Being busy is not the same as being brilliant.""Cozy teams are teams that trust each other enough to tell the truth.""We've confused being professional with looking professional.""You can either be consumed by your calendar or create space to consume ideas.""Even shoveling tough work can be joyful if you like your co-shovelers." Chapters 00:00 Introduction02:00 Start of Interview02:03 Bree's Background and Family Influence05:47 The Normalization of Burnout10:54 Optimizing for Good Laughs with Good People17:50 Performative Professionalism vs. Authenticity26:26 Creating Fun and Cozy Work Environments33:08 Building a Trusting and High-Performing Team34:42 Practical Tools for Team Cohesion35:15 The User Manual: A Quickstart Guide to Teamwork37:01 Daily Check-ins: Enhancing Team Communication38:28 The Fast Food Rule: Effective One-on-One Communication40:38 Prioritizing Personal Well-being for Better Work46:24 Milton Glaser: Finding Pleasure in Work49:45 Applying Team Principles in Family Life51:39 End of Interview52:12 Andy Comments After the Interview56:52 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Bree and her work at BreeGroff.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 458 with Elizabeth Lotardo, about finding joy in the job you haveEpisode 333 with Bob Nelson and Mario Tamayo, on how to make work more funEpisode 82 with Bill Catlette, about how contented teams deliver better results Pass the PMP Exam This Year If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Work Culture, Team Rituals, Burnout, Psychological Safety, Joy at Work, Authenticity, People Management, Communication, Employee Engagement, Project Management, Emotional Intelligence The following music was used for this episode: Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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    1 hr and 2 mins
  • PPP 477 | Are You Being Too Nice? When Helping Actually Hurts, with author Jess Baker

    PPP 477 | Are You Being Too Nice? When Helping Actually Hurts, with author Jess Baker
    Sep 21 2025
    Summary In this episode, Andy talks with Jess Baker, business psychologist and author of The Super-Helper Syndrome: A Survival Guide for Compassionate People. Jess helps leaders, project managers, and anyone who tends to take on too much work avoid burnout, preserve self-worth, and build healthier ways of helping. The conversation digs into what "Super-Helper Syndrome" means, how over-helping can lead to exhaustion, resentment, exploitation, or harsh self-criticism, and what beliefs often drive us into that pattern. Jess shares actionable tools for setting boundaries, recognizing irrational helper beliefs, and changing our mindset, including asking "What kind of help is needed here?" to building systems that support sustainable helping. If you're leading projects, teams, or supporting others, these insights will help you avoid overcommitment while still being compassionate. Sound Bites "Helping others to the detriment of your own wellbeing is something many of us do without noticing.""When you struggle to say no to requests for help, your relationships are lopsided. You deny your own needs.""Exhaustion, resentment, exploitation and self-criticism are the four adverse impacts of super-helper syndrome.""Compassion is when you decide you have to do something to alleviate someone's suffering.""'What kind of help is needed here?' rather than just 'How can I help?'""Your self-worth does not depend upon helping people.""Healthy helping is about recognizing who, how and when you help, and having boundaries that are not porous." Chapters 00:00 Introduction02:01 Start of Interview02:23 What Got You Started Exploring Empathy and Compassion?05:15 Cognitive Empathy vs Emotional Empathy08:02 How Do You, As a Clinician, Use Empathy Without Being Overwhelmed?10:07 The Four Forms of Help18:52 Stakeholder Scenario: Balancing Autonomy and Dependency in Helping25:01 When Did Jess Help? What Were Her Motivations?31:56 It Adds Energy to Help33:28 How Can I Discern If I'm Becoming a Super-Helper?38:07 A Roadmap for Setting Healthy Boundaries46:03 Parenting and Helping Habits51:21 End of Interview51:58 Andy Comments After the Interview56:33 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Jess, her book, and her work at JessBaker.co.uk. For deeper reading and related conversations, check out: Episode 448 with Marie-Helene Pelletier (on burnout and resilience)Episode 385 with Vanessa Patrick (about her book The Power of Saying No)Episode 26 with Dr. Ed Schein (MIT Fellow, Helping: How to Offer, Give, and Receive Help) Pass the PMP Exam This Year If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Empathy, Boundaries, Wellbeing, Helping Others, Self-Compassion, Impact of Beliefs, Burnout Prevention, Communication The following music was used for this episode: Music: The Fantastical Ferret by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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    1 hr and 3 mins
  • PPP 476 | This One Idea Could Radically Change How You Lead, with author Jim Ferrell

    PPP 476 | This One Idea Could Radically Change How You Lead, with author Jim Ferrell
    Sep 5 2025
    Summary In this episode, Andy interviews Jim Ferrell, author of  You and We: A Relational Rethinking of Work, Life and Leadership. Andy has long been a big fan of Jim's work with The Arbinger Institute, authoring Leadership and Self-Deception and The Anatomy of Peace. In this conversation, Jim unpacks his insights on how leaders can move from a self-focused to a relational mindset. Drawing from his new book, Jim explains why our effectiveness as leaders depends not just on what we do, but on how we view and relate to the people around us. The discussion explores what it means to be relational instead of transactional, how leaders can better navigate conflict, and the subtle ways our self-deceptions hinder growth. Jim also shares practical ideas for building trust, leading with humility, and focusing on outcomes that matter most. This episode is packed with thought-provoking insights that will challenge how you think about leadership, culture, and collaboration. If you're looking for insights on how to become a more relational leader and truly impact those you serve, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "Machines don't have to be great at relation, but they'll be great at everything else. And if we're lousy at relation ourselves, we won't have a job.""Those who can relate better, that's the uniquely human competitive advantage we bring to the marketplace.""The top people spend most of their time on the relational work, not on the other stuff. So you see it happening already. That's all going to be accelerating.""The most important part of the chart of any org chart is actually all the space in between the names and boxes, because that's where everything's happening, right?""We went from the body economy to the mind economy to now the heart economy.""Proximity is not necessarily closeness." Chapters 00:00 Introduction01:55 Start of Interview02:07 Jim Ferrell's Backstory and Early Influences06:17 About Jim Writing Leadership and Self-Deception08:57 Exploring the Concept of Relation vs. Relationships10:07 The Five Levels of Relation13:19 Managing Relation in Organizations17:29 The Shift to the Heart Economy20:00 Insights from the Book 'You and We'27:00 Proximity vs. Closeness in Remote Work29:08 The Power of Hydrogen and Oxygen29:46 Remote vs. In-Person Work Dynamics32:14 The Importance of Connectivity in Teams33:14 Understanding Relational Space34:35 Personal Stories of Relation37:48 How Can We Discern Where We Are in the Levels? And Our Teams?39:29 The Concept of Compounding in Relations41:07 The Relational Leap45:54 End of Interview46:27 Andy Comments After the Interview49:23 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Jim and his book at Withiii.com/youandwe. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 185 with Mitch Warner about the Arbinger book Leadership and Self-Deception.Episode 356 with Eric Barker about why everything you know about relationships is mostly wrong.Episode 459 with Adrian Kelly about identity and rethinking success. Pass the PMP Exam This Year If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Relationships, Trust, Relational Mindset, Conflict, Self-Deception, Self-Awareness, Influence, Humility, Collaboration, Culture, Authenticity The following music was used for this episode: Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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    55 mins
  • PPP 475 | If Work Feels Like an Episode of The Office, This Is for You, with Don Kieffer and Nelson Repenning

    PPP 475 | If Work Feels Like an Episode of The Office, This Is for You, with Don Kieffer and Nelson Repenning
    Aug 21 2025
    Summary

    Have you ever wrapped up your workday thinking, "I've been busy all day, but I'm not sure I actually made anything better"? If so, you're not alone, and today's guests are here to help you break that cycle.

    In this episode, Andy talks with Don Kieffer and Nelson Repenning, co-authors of the new book There's Got to Be a Better Way. Don is a former Harley-Davidson executive who led during some of the company's most challenging years. Nelson is a professor at MIT Sloan who studies why well-intended management tools often fail in practice. Together, they're helping leaders rethink how work actually gets done.

    In the conversation, you'll learn why so many teams get stuck in firefighting mode, and why that's often not a people issue but a systems issue. You'll hear how to spot the "firefighter-arsonist" pattern, why problem-solving starts with problem-finding, and what it means to "design for discovery." We also talk about Agile, Lean, invisible handoffs, and even how these ideas apply to family life.

    If you're looking for insights on how to make your team's work more effective, sustainable, and human-centered, this episode is for you!

    Sound Bites
    • "Most performance problems are not people problems. They're design problems."
    • "You get what you design for. And most work isn't designed at all. It just kind of happens."
    • "Firefighting is not a character flaw. It's a predictable output of a broken system."
    • "If you don't make the work visible, you can't improve it."
    • "When no one owns the handoff, it's not really a handoff. It's a drop."
    • "Success should be easy. That doesn't mean the work isn't hard, but the path to doing it well should be clear."
    • "Discovery isn't luck. It's a design choice."
    Chapters
    • 00:00 Introduction
    • 01:49 Start of Interview
    • 01:59 The Origin Story: How Don and Nelson Collaborated
    • 07:36 Challenges in Implementing Business Tools
    • 13:19 Dynamic Work Design vs. Traditional Methods
    • 25:16 A Lesson from the Factory Floor
    • 26:53 Identifying and Solving Problems in Teams
    • 31:23 The Importance of Connecting the Human Chain
    • 35:46 Making Work Visible: Strategies and Tools
    • 40:34 Applying Work Strategies at Home
    • 42:46 End of Interview
    • 43:12 Andy Comments After the Interview
    • 47:35 Outtakes
    Learn More

    You can learn more about the book and their work at shiftgear.work/theres-got-to-be-a-better-way-book.

    For more learning on this topic, check out:

    • Episode 249 with Aaron Dignan about Brave New Work
    • Episode 252 with Marcus Buckingham about Nine Lies About Work
    • Episode 162 with Jonathan Raymond on culture and leadership mindset

    Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

    Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

    Topics: Leadership, Project Management, System Design, Agile, Lean, Problem Solving, Collaboration, Organizational Effectiveness, Continuous Improvement, Work Design, Team Performance

    The following music was used for this episode:

    Music: Quantum Sparks Full Version by MusicLFiles
    License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

    Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter
    License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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    48 mins