In this conversation, Sandja Brügmann and Tor Nørretranders discuss the Shifting Baseline Syndrome, which highlights how each generation perceives the present as the norm, often overlooking the changes that have occurred over time. They explore the vital role of elders in society, emphasizing their moral obligation to contribute and share their memories and experiences. The discussion also touches on the importance of community, the gift economy, and the need for conflict resolution skills. Tor introduces the concept of Sinnsro, a state of peace and acceptance, and highlights the significance of small interactions, or Chula Hop moments, in building social bonds. Overall, the conversation advocates for recognizing thevalue of elders and fostering meaningful connections within communities.

Chapters

00:00 Understanding Shifting Baseline Syndrome

07:24 The Role of Elders in Society

13:30 The Importance of Historical Context

18:35 Sensing Gradual Changes in Society

25:29 Navigating Fear and Embracing Change

28:25 The Concept of Sinnsro and Community Dialogue

32:13 Conflict Resolution and Common Ground

32:53 Personal Responsibility in Experiences

35:57 The Role of Social Connections in Longevity

42:48 Community Dynamics and Shared Purpose

43:32 Market Economy vs. Gift Economy

54:32 The Importance of Interpersonal Skills

56:44 The Renaissance of Elders in Society

01:03:29 Exploring Sindsro: Serenity and Wisdom of Elders

About New Global Mind: A video podcast exploring brighter futures through leadership. A series from The Passion Institute. Each episode explores innovative ideas, wisdom and strategies with cross-disciplinary experts in systems science, strategictransformation, human behavior, consciousness, sustainability, psychology, economics, spirituality, and technology.

About Tor Nørretranders he is an independent author, thinker and speaker based in Denmark, serving an international audience. A leading science communicator of Denmark, Torhas involved himself in numerous activities in the public arena and his lecture tours, gathering tens of thousands of people, have been major events on the Scandinavian scene.. Tor has published 30+ books spanning issues from the worldview of science and the role of science in society to environmental issues and the realm of human experience and consciousness. "Mærk verden" from 1991 (English title: The User Illusion) became an international bestseller, even though it is a500-page treatise on the role of consciousness in human affairs. In 2025 Tor published “Alderdomsoprør” about the potential role of the elderly as spearheads of a new revolt against the monotony of life and nature stemming from modern life. The book advocates for serenity as the value needed for a new age.

About Host Sandja Brügmann, Founder & CEO of The Passion Institute—a strategic transformation institute—a global visionary in leadership and strategic transformation, engages thought leaders and practitioners to shape our collective future. Named one of the "World's Leadership Gurus" byLederne and known as 'The Board Whisperer' among leaders, she is renowned for her expertise in systems awareness and strategic sustainable transformation. She and team empower forward-thinking organizations and leaders to cultivate theskills and strategies crucial for the transition.

Links

Tor's website https://www.tor.dk/

Sandja's company website www.ThePassionInstitute.com

I think it's very obvious that many of us feel a strong fear now and that this fear is overstated. We show more fear than isrelevant in this situation. And one thing, of course, we should do is to take a deep breath and ask ourselves, is it really so frightening and so dangerous as we believe? Is it truly so that our world is changing in a way that is like in the 1930s, for instance, with fascism in Europe and so on. Is it the same thinghappening? And is it impossible? if it is happening to counteract it and to resist it. And I think we have a tendency to be more fearful than we have reason to be and to be less confident of ourselves than we have reason to be because it's so novel. It's so surprising to us that anyone could go out andsay there's no climate crisis.

Host Sandja Brügmann in conversation with TorNørretranders on Sindsro and the wisdom of elders.

About New Global Mind: A video podcast exploring brighter futures through leadership. A series from The Passion Institute. Each episode explores innovative ideas, wisdom and strategies with cross-disciplinary experts in systems science, strategic transformation, human behavior, consciousness, sustainability, psychology, economics, spirituality, and technology.

About Tor Nørretranders is is an independent author, thinker and speaker based in Denmark, serving an international audience. A leading science communicator of Denmark, Tor has involved himself in numerous activities in the public arena, from newspaper journalism through books and magazine articles to hosting and producing television shows on science and the general world view. His lecture tours, gathering tens of thousands of people, have been major events on the Scandinavian scene. Originally graduated as a M.Sc. inenvironmental planning and the sociology of science, Tor has been academically employed at the Technical University of Denmark, The Royal Academy of Fine Arts and the Risø National Laboratory. He was honored as adjunct professor in thephilosophy of science at Copenhagen Business School. His scientific publications include studies of pattern formation in fluids, the information content of conscious experience and the output and quality of Danish science. He has been involved in creating collaborative networks of artists and scientists. Tor has published 30+ books spanning issues from the worldview of science and the role of science in society to environmental issues and the realm of human experience and consciousness. "Mærk verden" from 1991 (English title: The User Illusion) became an international bestseller, even though it is a 500-page treatise on the role of consciousness in human affairs, based on material from physics, mathematics, psychology, neurophysiology, information theory and the history of ideas. Another international bestseller, "Det generøse menneske" from 2002 (English title: The Generous Man), deals with the role of generosity and sociality in human affairs. In 2025 Tor published “Alderdomsoprør” about the potential role of the elderly as spearheads of a new revolt against the monotony of life and nature stemming from modern life. The book advocates for serenity as the value needed for a new age.

About Host SandjaBrügmann, Founder & CEO of The Passion Institute—astrategic transformation institute—a global visionary in leadership andstrategic transformation, engages thought leaders and practitioners to shapeour collective future. Named one of the "World's Leadership Gurus" byLederne and known as 'The Board Whisperer' among leaders, she is renowned forher expertise in systems awareness and strategic sustainable transformation. Sheand team empower forward-thinking organizations and leaders to cultivate theskills and strategies crucial for the transition.

In this conversation, John Fullerton and Sandja Brügmannexplore the urgent need for a reimagined economic and financial system that serves life. They discuss the concept of the polycrisis, which encompasses interconnected crises such as climate change and inequality, and emphasize the importance of shifting worldviews from separation to unity. The dialogue highlights the necessity of effective communication, the role of consciousness in systemic change, and the potential for regenerative economics to align purpose with investment. They also address the challenges of navigating chaos and the importance of finding joy in the transformative work ahead.

New Global Mind: A video podcast exploring brighter futures through leadership. A new series from The Passion Institute. Each episode explores innovative ideas, wisdom and strategies with cross-disciplinary experts in systems science, strategictransformation, human behavior, consciousness, sustainability, psychology, economics, spirituality, and technology.

Takeaways

The economy is a living system, not a machine

The polycrisis encompasses interconnected crises like climate change and inequality

A worldview shift is necessary to address root causes of crises

Dialogue is essential for generative conversations and understanding

We must work on consciousness to change the systems we inhabit

Islands of coherence can shift entire system

Regenerative economics is about aligning purpose with investment

First principles of living systems guide sustainable practices

Potential exists in all systems, but must be nurtured

Collective rising consciousness can lead to systemic change

Chapters

00:00 A Bold Reimagination of Economics

03:10 Understanding the Polycrisis

05:04 The Myth of Separation

07:24 Worldview Shifts and Integral Age Thinking

09:59 The Challenge of Communication

12:19 Navigating Emotional Immaturity

14:29 Paradigm Shifts in Economics

17:05 Living Systems and Economic Health

19:29 Experiential Learning and Regenerative Economics

21:44 Potential and Darkness in Living Systems

30:48 The Dark Side of Algorithms

32:58 First Principles and Business Models

36:42 The State of the Global Economy

40:51 Paradigm Shifts and Collective Consciousness

43:20 Strategies for Change

47:16 Finding Joy in the Work

Links:

www.CapitalInstitute.org

Places to Intervene in a System https://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/

Savory Institute https://savory.global/

Mondragon Corporation https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/

The Passion Institute www.ThePassionInstitute.com

About John B. Fullerton is an American economist, investor, with a previous international career at JP Morgan, and author of the 2015 booklet, Regenerative Capitalism: How Universal Patterns and Principles Will Shape the New Economy.

Fullerton began his financial career with JPMorgan managing numerous capital markets and derivaties businesses around the globe, and was JPMorgan’s Oversight Committee Representative that managed the rescue of Long Term Capital Management in 1998. Following his retirement from JP Morgan, in 2010, he created the Capital Institute, a think-tank on regenerative economic theory, an attempt to imagine economics and finance in service to life.

About Host Sandja Brügmann, Founder & CEO of The Passion Institute—a strategic transformation institute—a global visionary in leadership and strategic transformation, engages thought leaders and practitioners to shape our collective future. Named one of the "World's Leadership Gurus" byLederne and known as 'The Board Whisperer' among leaders, she is renowned for her expertise in systems awareness and strategic sustainable transformation. She and team empower forward-thinking organizations and leaders to cultivate theskills and strategies crucial for the transition.