In this episode of The Ministry Mix Podcast, Phil and Richard sit down with their friend Josh, pastor of Cross & Anchor Church in Detroit, to explore a story filled with calling, closed doors, disappointment, grit, and God’s surprising redirection.
Josh shares the compelling journey he and his wife walked—from serving in Montana, to believing God was calling them to plant a church in London, to being unexpectedly detained at Heathrow Airport, sent back to the U.S., and forced into a two-year season they never anticipated.

Through moments of shock, grief, confusion, and wrestling, Josh describes how God reshaped their hearts, refined their calling, and ultimately led them to Detroit. His story offers deep encouragement for pastors and ministry leaders who feel stuck, discouraged, or tempted to quit.

This is a raw, honest, hope-filled look at what it means to discern God’s will in uncertainty, endure the dark-room seasons of development, and keep moving forward when quitting feels easier.

Key Themes:

1. When Calling Collides with Reality
2. The “Dark Room” Season of Development
3. How Do You Know When to Push Through or Pivot?
4. Why You Shouldn’t Quit on Your Worst Day
5. God’s Provision on the Other Side of Obedience


Key Quotes:

“What you sow doesn’t come to life unless it dies.”
“Don’t quit. You can’t see the fulfillment of the dream if you quit.”
“God develops us in the dark room so we can carry what He gives us later.”
“Quit on Monday if you need to, but show back up on Tuesday.”

Who This Episode Is For:

Church planters navigating uncertainty
Pastors wrestling with discouragement
Leaders dealing with roadblocks or doubt
Anyone trying to discern the difference between perseverance and redirection
Ministry teams needing a reminder that God is faithful through “the in-between”

In this vulnerable and refreshing conversation, Phil and Richard sit down to talk about the surprising ministry impact of Richard’s poetry book Memento Mori. What began as private reflections written while facing cancer has become a ministry tool touching people who feel unseen, forgotten, or spiritually disconnected. This episode unpacks how creativity intersects with calling, how the Psalms teach us to process real emotion with God, and why the church must make space for honest faith rather than polished performance.

Whether you’re a pastor, ministry leader, or someone carrying private hurt, this episode invites you into the kind of raw, grace-filled reflection that leads to deeper discipleship and authentic connection.

• The unexpected origin of the book

• How poetry opened doors for ministry

• A powerful testimony from a poetry reading

• When Christianity becomes too polished

• Why the Psalms give us permission to be honest

• Creativity can be a ministry tool, even if it begins as personal processing.
• People hunger for spiritual spaces where honest struggle is welcomed, not hidden.
• Your deepest wounds can become bridges to someone else’s healing.
• Emotionally healthy discipleship requires teaching people how to bring their full selves to God.
• Authenticity—not polish—is often what opens the door for gospel conversations.

• Memento Mori – Richard’s poetry book (click for link)
• Connect with Ministry Mix on Instagram: @ministry.mix

In this episode of Ministry Mix, Phil and Richard sit down with Tony Hudson, a filmmaker and master storyteller.

Tony shares how learning to see people through the lens of love transforms not only how we tell stories, but how we do ministry. Tony reminds us that good storytelling isn’t about technique; it’s about paying attention, loving deeply, and letting God write the narrative.

This episode will encourage leaders, and creatives who feel stuck in the grind to rediscover the holy art of listening and to remember that stories are one of the most powerful ways to communicate the gospel.

Key Takeaways

• “You can’t tell someone’s story if you don’t like them.”
  Ministry begins with compassion. The best storytellers are the best listeners.
• “Every story can be boiled down to one sentence.”
  Simplify your message. Clarity leads to impact — whether you’re preaching, leading, or creating.
• “We’re not the storytellers — God is.”
  Our role is to hold the pen for a few pages, trusting the Author with the rest.
• “If your church really knew each other’s stories…”
  The result would be deeper worship, stronger community, and more empathy.

In This Conversation

• How storytelling builds empathy and connection in the church
• Why authenticity is more powerful than polish
• The difference between telling a story and telling your story
• Seeing pain through the lens of God’s goodness
• What happens when leaders start paying attention again

Quotes Worth Sharing

“Fall in love with the story you’re telling and the person you’re telling it about.”

“If everybody in the church knew each other’s stories, worship would blow the roof off the building.”

We’re back!

In the Season 2 opener, Phil and Richard kick things off with honesty, humor, and a fresh desire to grow. After an unplanned break (and a few ministry curveballs), the guys share five ways they’re aiming to do ministry better-ish — because improvement matters, but perfection isn’t the goal.

They unpack lessons learned from the past year, talk about the importance of prioritizing family and soul health, and share what’s ahead for Ministry Mix: more authentic conversations, deeper community, and even some new ideas like “micro-conferences” designed for ministry leaders who are tired of being overproduced and under-encouraged.

Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or creative trying to balance calling and chaos, this episode will make you laugh, nod, and maybe even rethink how you’re defining “better.”

5 Highlights from the Conversation

1) “We love you listeners, but my family and our church come first.”
Healthy leaders prioritize what matters most. Boundaries are biblical.

2) “We’re never going to be the most produced podcast — we’re just real conversations.”
Authentic > impressive. Leaders crave honest spaces to think and process.

3) “We’re moving from a podcast about ministry to a ministry with a podcast.”
The vision for Ministry Mix is expanding — from content to community.

4) “What if conferences were short, powerful, and real?”
The idea of micro-conferences — bite-sized, intentional gatherings for real growth.

What You’ll Hear

• Why Season 2 took a pause (and why that’s okay)
• How to avoid burnout by focusing on what matters
• The danger of measuring ministry by production value
• What it means to build a ministry community, not just an audience
• A sneak peek at what’s coming this year

Quotes Worth Sharing

“You don’t need polish to have purpose.”

“Better doesn’t mean bigger — it means healthier.”

“When ministry feels dead, remember: resurrection is kind of God’s thing.”

Listen, Laugh, and Rethink “Better”

If you’re a ministry leader who’s tired of trying to keep up, this episode will remind you that growth happens in grace — and that sometimes better-ish is exactly where God wants you.

Connect with Ministry Mix

Leading While Hurting: Showing Up When You’re Struggling

What do you do when your soul is limping but the sermon still needs to be preached? In this vulnerable episode of Ministry Mix, Phil and Richard open up about what it’s like to keep leading when you’re tired, grieving, burned out, or just broken. They share honest stories of preaching through pain, shepherding with a heavy heart, and discovering how Jesus meets leaders not after the storm—but in it.

If you’ve ever had to lead while hurting, you’re not alone. And you’re not disqualified.

Key Takeaways:

• Leadership doesn’t stop when life gets hard—but it should get more honest.
• You don’t have to pretend to be okay to be effective.
• Hurting doesn’t make you a bad leader—it makes you a human one.
• God often ministers through us while He’s ministering to us.
• Authenticity in pain opens doors that polish never could.

Practical Soul-First Leadership Tips:

• Admit when you’re hurting—to yourself and to someone else.
• You can bleed and still bless. Jesus did.
• Find small ways to rest even when retreat isn’t possible.
• Don’t lead from your wounds, but don’t hide them either.
• God can still use you—especially when you feel weak.

In this practical episode of Ministry Mix, Phil and Richard walk through 10 ways to better understand the place where you live and lead. Whether you're planting a church, revitalizing a congregation, or just trying to be a more thoughtful neighbor, knowing your city is a key part of effective ministry.

From demographics to diners, prayer walking to property tax data, this episode gives leaders a real-world framework for discovering the rhythms, pain points, and potential of their community.

If you want to stop guessing and start engaging—this one’s for you.

10 Ways to Understand Your City:

1. Drive with Intentionality – Pay attention to neighborhoods, signage, businesses, and cultural markers.
2. Eat at Local Spots – You’ll learn what people love, talk about, and value.
3. Study Demographics – Use census data, city websites, and school stats to know who’s there.
4. Walk and Pray – Nothing replaces being on the ground with your eyes and heart open.
5. Visit City Council or School Board Meetings – Hear what people are fighting for and against.
6. Study What’s Being Built – Growth tells a story: housing, retail, parks, and schools all have meaning.
7. Follow the Money – What gets funded gets attention. Study city budgets, grants, and investments.
8. Talk to Longtime Residents – They carry memory, nuance, and pain newer folks miss.
9. Listen to Local Podcasts or Facebook Groups – See what people are celebrating, complaining about, and rallying around.
10. Look for Spiritual History – Ask where God has moved before and what spiritual strongholds remain.

Bonus Application Tips:

• Create a shared document to collect findings as a team.
• Map what ministries and churches already exist.
• Pray, “God, help me see what You see.”

In this episode, Phil Gifford and Richard Pope swap stories about the odd jobs they’ve worked—from lifeguarding and grease trap cleaning to bouncer gigs and debt collection. But it’s more than fun stories—they pull leadership and ministry insights from each experience. Whether you’re scrubbing toilets or selling copiers, there are spiritual lessons everywhere.

Key Takeaways:

• Train for the unseen: Phil shares how lifeguarding taught him to prepare for emergencies that may never come—yet be ready when they do. Ministry leadership is the same.
• Humility is leadership currency: Cleaning grease traps and scrubbing toilets helped Richard value servant leadership and never ask someone to do something he wouldn’t do himself.
• Conflict is better prevented than managed: A stint as a bouncer taught the value of addressing issues early—before they explode. This translates into proactive church leadership and relational health.
• Always deliver truth with grace: Richard’s debt collection job reminded him how tone and posture matter—especially when delivering hard news in ministry.
• Every job can be a gospel opportunity: From meat markets to copier sales, Phil learned to notice what hurts and bring Jesus into the story with empathy and boldness.
• Bad leadership leaves a mark: Phil’s short-lived envelope-stuffing gig reinforced the importance of clarity, kindness, and equipping volunteers before expecting results.

Practical Tips:

• Don’t underestimate the spiritual value of your past jobs—use those lessons in how you lead and disciple others.
• When equipping volunteers, be clear, kind, and thorough—never assume they “just know” what to do.
• Embrace the hard or “low” tasks. They cultivate humility and open doors for trust.
• Ask “What hurts?” when talking with someone far from Jesus—it often opens a door to gospel conversations.
• Address conflict early, and always with the tone of grace.

In this practical episode, Phil Gifford and Richard Pope dive into six essential tips for holding baptism services that are meaningful, mission-focused, and joy-filled. Whether you're a lead pastor or part of a church team, this conversation is packed with real-life stories, helpful strategies, and a few tangents along the way.

You’ll learn:

• How to capture and share baptism stories to inspire your church and community.
• Why it’s better to spread out baptisms instead of batching them all together.
• The importance of giving space but not waiting too long between decision and baptism.
• How to make baptisms a true celebration that mirrors heaven’s excitement.
• Why you should let others baptize and empower spiritual leaders beyond just the pastors.
• How to invite people to respond—both those watching and those being baptized.

Phil and Richard also get honest about navigating baptisms with kids, avoiding false conversions, and balancing theology with pastoral care.

Key Takeaway: Baptisms should be a regular, joyful, and mission-driving part of church life, not just an occasional event.