If you want to know what goes into courtroom decision-making when the pressure is on, you’ll want to hear this one.

Welcome back to Lawyer Talk! I'm Steve Palmer, and in this episode, I’m giving you an inside look at a recent trial I just finished—one that didn’t have a jury.

Instead, my client and I made the tough decision to waive his right to a jury trial, choosing to have a judge decide his fate. I’ll walk you through exactly why I rarely take cases in front of just a judge, what made this case unique, and the careful reasoning behind our strategy—especially when there are tricky legal technicalities involved. I’ll also share some thoughts on what it really means to get a fair trial, whether it’s with a jury or a judge.

Three key takeaways:

• Strategic Choice Matters: Opting for a bench (judge-only) trial can be the right path when a case hinges on a nuanced, technical legal issue that a jury might not fully grasp.
• Deep Client Collaboration: The decision isn’t made lightly. It involves honest conversations about risks, pros, and cons, making sure the client is 100% involved all the way.
• Presentation Still Counts: While the theatrics are toned down for a judge, it’s crucial to present evidence clearly and treat the judge as the "fact finder"—advocating with the same intensity as if speaking to a jury.

Got a question you want answered on the podcast? Call 614-859-2119 and leave us a voicemail. Steve will answer your question on the next podcast!

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high-publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com

On this episode of Lawyer Talk, I’m going off the record and on the air to answer the many questions I’ve been getting about the Tyler Robinson case, which is making headlines for its connection to the Charlie Kirk assassination. I’ll be clearing up some misunderstandings about the evidence—especially when it comes to fingerprints and DNA—and giving you a clearer picture of what the legal process looks like from here.

I’ll also share my take on what it’s really like to defend someone in a high-profile case like this, from dealing with the media circus to the practical challenges lawyers face behind the scenes.

Top Takeaways:

Evidence Scrutiny is Critical:

Defense attorneys always start by dissecting the prosecution's evidence—including DNA, fingerprints, and the context surrounding them. As Steve notes, just because certain evidence is cited in a probable cause affidavit doesn’t make the case airtight; robust discovery and expert analysis are essential.

Taking on Death Penalty Defense is a Massive Undertaking:

These cases can last well over a year and consume significant resources. Most are handled by private lawyers appointed (and underpaid) by the state, not full-time public defenders, which can impact their own legal practices.

Expertise and Resources Make or Break the Case:

Successfully defending a death penalty case often requires applying for court-approved experts in forensics, cell phone data, and beyond. The responsibility is immense—not only for the client, but for the integrity of the justice process.

Got a question you want answered on the podcast? Call 614-859-2119 and leave us a voicemail. Steve will answer your question on the next podcast!

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high-publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com

I’m answering a great follow-up question that came straight from our producer, Brett at Circle 270 Media. After talking about search warrants and the “four corners” requirement, Brett asked: What happens if the police are searching for one thing, like a brick of cocaine, but while they're lawfully inside your house, they stumble on something else illegal—say, an unlawful firearm?

I walk you through the nuts and bolts of the Fourth Amendment, explaining how the “plain view” exception actually works and what it means if a search warrant turns out to be invalid. I’ll break down how law enforcement can—and can’t—use what they find, and why things like the “fruit of the poisonous tree” doctrine can make or break a case. If you’ve ever wondered what really happens when police find the unexpected during a search, this episode is for you.

Key takeaways:

• Plain View Doctrine: If law enforcement is lawfully present (with a valid warrant) and spots contraband in plain view, they are legally allowed to seize it—even if it’s not what they were originally searching for.
• Invalid Warrants Have Consequences: If a search warrant is later found invalid, any evidence found, including that seen in plain view, can be excluded from court under the “fruit of the poisonous tree” doctrine.
• Scope of Search Matters: Police can’t look for “an elephant in a shoebox.” If the warrant is for a large object (like a machine gun), searching small containers exceeds the scope—unless the warrant includes broader language about searching for related items.

Got a question you want answered on the podcast? Call 614-859-2119 and leave us a voicemail. Steve will answer your question on the next podcast!

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high-publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com

I’m tackling the twists and turns of the criminal appellate process—particularly the difference between direct and indirect appeals, also known as post-conviction or habeas corpus actions.

I’m drawing directly from my experiences and real questions that come up in my practice, breaking down what I call the “appellate ladder” that anyone must climb after a conviction, especially here in Ohio.

I’ll explain why you can’t just skip steps in the appeal process, even if it feels like it might save time or money. Skipping a rung can create procedural traps, especially if you’re hoping to take your case up to the federal courts later on. I know how tempting it can be to jump ahead, but I’ll show you why following every step is crucial if you want a real shot at relief.

I’m here to cut through the legal jargon and share practical advice for anyone facing an appeal—or just curious about how the process really works. And yes, I’ll even throw in a Mario Bros. analogy to make it all a bit more fun. Stick around if you want to understand the true “appeal” of appeals!

Moments

00:00 Consider indirect appeal first; it's often more successful and cost-effective than the direct appeal, saving time and legal resources.

03:30 Habeas corpus in federal court is complex; missing technicalities at the state level can lead to case dismissal.

Here are 3 key takeaways from the episode:

• There Are Two Appellate Ladders: The criminal appellate process includes a direct appeal (challenging errors from the trial as recorded in the official record) and an indirect or post-conviction appeal (addressing issues outside the record). Both play crucial roles.
• Don’t Skip Steps: As tempting as it is to save time and money by jumping straight to the “stronger” argument, skipping any step in the ladder can lead to procedural default—meaning federal courts may not even consider your case.
• Strategic Foresight is Vital: Allowing each court level to rule preserves your right to seek relief at the federal level (like habeas corpus). Shortcuts, unfortunately, just aren’t an option in appellate law.

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm...

In this Q&A episode, I answer a question about search warrants and explain the difference between a standard motion to suppress and the all-important Franks motion.

Responding to a listener’s question, I break down how police affidavits are used to obtain search warrants, what happens when there’s a lack of probable cause, and what it means if law enforcement lies—or leaves out key information—when seeking a warrant.

I walk you through how the Fourth Amendment protects your privacy, how courtroom strategies develop, and why it’s so important to keep solid communication with your defense attorney if you’re ever facing criminal charges.

Whether you’re caught up in your own case or just curious how all this plays out in real life, this episode gives you a practical, step-by-step guide straight from my experience in the trenches.

Moments

00:00 Under the Fourth Amendment, law enforcement must present a sworn statement or affidavit to a judge, establishing probable cause and a nexus between the search location and evidence of criminal activity.

03:41 Exclusionary rule: Illegally obtained evidence is inadmissible in court; supports motions like suppressing evidence or Frank's motion.

08:35 Discuss police report discrepancies at Frank's hearings; consult your lawyer for strategy and communication.

Here are my top 3 takeaways:

Know the Difference:

A traditional motion to suppress focuses exclusively on what’s contained within the “four corners” of the search warrant affidavit. If the affidavit lacks probable cause, that’s your argument.

A Franks motion takes it a step further—challenging the truthfulness of the statements in that affidavit. If police knowingly lied or omitted critical information, the entire warrant (and seized evidence) can be thrown out.

Procedural Impact Matters:

Motion to suppress hearings are mostly decided on the documents—you don’t typically get to call witnesses or present new evidence.

Franks motions can turn into full-blown evidentiary hearings, where you get to subpoena officers, cross-examine them, and introduce evidence showing intentional falsehoods or omissions.

Strategic Use:

Skilled defense attorneys often file both types—creating multiple avenues to contest the evidence and strengthen your client’s defense.

Got a question you want answered on the podcast? Call 614-859-2119 and leave us a voicemail. Steve will answer your question on the next podcast!

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high-publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E....

Whether you’re curious about the details of the preliminary hearing, how the defense will handle the mountain of evidence, or why even the most reviled defendants still deserve a robust legal defense, this episode will unpack the complexities and answer your pressing questions as the case unfolds.

This is what you NEED to know about how the justice system will handle the country’s highest-profile case right now.

The Basics: No Grand Jury in Utah

Utah does things differently—there’s NO grand jury. Prosecutors file charges directly, supported by a probable cause affidavit. This initial phase is all about protecting everyone’s rights, even for the accused in horrific crimes.

Why Probable Cause Matters

A probable cause statement lays out the evidence/accusations, so prosecutors can’t just grab anyone off the street. It’s a paper trail under oath of what the State knows so far.

Initial Appearance: Enter the Accused

The defendant’s first court appearance was done over Zoom/WebEx for safety (think: avoid any “Jack Ruby” moments; if you know, you know). At this appearance, charges are read out loud to give proper notice.

No Bond—And Why

Because the DA is seeking the death penalty, Utah law doesn’t allow for bond in these cases. The defense can’t even make a pitch for release.

Next Up: The Preliminary Hearing Showdown

This is the big one! It’s a live mini-trial where prosecutors have to show the judge enough evidence (probable cause) to move forward. Unlike secret grand juries, this is an open court. If prosecutors flop, the case is dismissed. Expect this hearing to be highly watched.

Public Defenders = Real Lawyers

Don’t knock court-appointed counsel! Death penalty cases require certified, highly trained lawyers. The defense gets the budget for experts—think DNA, ballistics, cyber-forensics.

Mountains of Evidence = Slow Process

With “truckloads of discovery”—every text, Discord chat, DNA swab—review takes TIME. The right to a speedy trial is for the defendant, but in reality, you can’t prep a case of this scale in a few months.

Constitutional Protections Are for Everyone

“This case exemplifies why we have these rights”—even for those accused of monstrous acts. The goal: avoid botched trials, which can lead to appeals and more pain for everyone.

Strategy Talk: What Will the Defense Do?

Expect the defense to check the client’s competency, dig into all the digital evidence, and build rapport (trust is HARD when the system appoints your lawyer). Every fact counts.

Will the Public See Everything?

Not likely. Much discovery stays in the hands of lawyers—public interest is huge, but releasing it all risks poisoning the jury pool and jeopardizing witnesses.

What’s Next? Possible Outcomes…

• Dismissal at preliminary hearing (unlikely, but possible if evidence falls short)
• Plea deal (maybe in exchange for info on other involved parties)
• Full-blown jury trial (with a death penalty phase if convicted)

The Emotional Toll on Lawyers

Even veteran defense attorneys admit: Sometimes a case hits too close to home. If emotions might interfere, you step aside. The system only works if both sides are at their best.

Bottom line:

This is the justice system in the public eye—every step under scrutiny. Don’t let the info vacuum fuel wild theories; wait for facts, demand answers, watch the legal process unfold.

Moments

00:00 Understanding Probable Cause Statements

08:12 Reduced Risks in Prisoner Transport

14:17 "Aggravating Circumstances in Question"

18:21 Court-Appointed Death Penalty

From navigating the temptations (and pitfalls) of using your personal cell phone for business to setting clear expectations with clients—especially when things move slowly, like in appellate cases—we get real about the day-to-day struggles of keeping clients informed without burning out.

We discuss why establishing boundaries from the start is not just practical but essential, and how maintaining professionalism with friends and family as clients can be a minefield if not handled properly.

Whether you’re in law school, thinking about practice management, or just aiming to survive your legal career without drowning in missed texts and client frustration, this episode is packed with honest insights, actionable tips, and the kind of advice every law student wishes they’d gotten sooner.

So grab your notebook—because these are the lessons they don’t teach you in law school.

Here are our top 3 takeaways:

Set Communication Expectations from the Start

Make it clear to clients how, when, and where you’ll communicate. This prevents missed messages, unrealistic demands, and misunderstandings.

Keep Client Communication Organized and Secure

Avoid mixing personal devices with client business. Use law practice management tools (with secure messaging) to ensure everything is confidential, logged, and accessible when you need it.

Treat Friends and Family as Clients—Professionally

The temptation to “bend the rules” for those you know can backfire. Use the same intake and communication protocols for everyone; it ensures nothing slips through the cracks.

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com

If you’ve ever wondered who really makes laws in this country or what happens when protest and free speech collide, stick around.

Let's look at President Trump’s executive order on flag burning.

There’s a lot of chatter out there about what an executive order actually is, what power the president really has, and how the Constitution fits into all this—and honestly, a lot of people are getting it wrong.

So, I’m here to clear things up. I’ll break down exactly what Trump is trying to do with this order, why it’s not quite what some people think, and what the law actually says about flag burning (hint: we’re talking about First Amendment rights and the Supreme Court’s big decision in Texas v. Johnson).

Additionally, I’ll share a great quote from Justice Scalia and discuss why our right to criticize the government—even in contentious ways—matters so much.

Here’s the real story, beyond the barstool chatter and media soundbites:

Executive Orders Aren’t Laws

The President can issue executive orders to guide administrative agencies, but they can’t make new laws—that power comes from Congress.

The Limits of Presidential Power

Executive actions can’t override the Constitution. Flag burning, for example, is considered symbolic speech protected by the First Amendment (see: Texas v. Johnson, 1989).

Fighting Words & Incitement Matter

Trump’s directive targeted flag burning only if it “incites violence”—a narrow exception that still faces tough constitutional scrutiny and likely doesn’t change much in practice.

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

Mentioned in this episode:

Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants

Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com