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Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chats

By: Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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About this listen

 Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.

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© 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
Episodes
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 238

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 238
    Oct 22 2025
    It is a pleasure to welcome Chris Zarraga the Director of Schools North East, the largest regional organisation supporting schools in the country. We also become aware that SNE also supports a number of special schools. We discuss the origins of SNE and Chris' career journey before we venture into what's caught Stan's eyes this week? He focuses on Martin's Law and the implications it has for school leadership. Chris then reflects on the importance of relationships and how this is always a key feature of the major events SNE organises. Frank then closes the chat by considering the insight offered by Sam Gibbs in a recent TES article considering what effective CPD for teachers may look like. It's a wide ranging chat with much reflection on previous experiences as senior leaders and why having a colleague or at least someone leaders can turn to when requiring personal and professional support.

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    41 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No. 18

    Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No. 18
    Oct 17 2025

    The 18th Spotlight edition of the Frank and Stan Chat looks at assessment and what digital leadership involves when we chat with Rosie Clayton. Rosie, until recently, was a key player in the Re-Thinking Assessment Group and has recently moved into a senior role at the Transforming Learning Group.


    We consider the development of new approaches to assessment and the future role of AI. We also revisit the amazing work Rosie led on in creating a Learner Profile that provides a mechanism for a fuller range of skills, expertise, experiences, and interests to be recorded.

    https://rethinkingassessment.com/learner-profile/


    We then shift on to her new role and consider some of the challenges in progressing a digital shift at individual schools.


    A great chat. Hope you enjoy it.

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    30 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 237

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 237
    Oct 13 2025

    Frank met Chris Jones, CEO of SMART Curriculum, a couple of years ago. We've been trying to secure a guest slot on the Frank and Stan Chat for a little while. He's a very busy man, so we are delighted to have him join us for what proves to be an illuminating and far-reaching discussion.


    Stan gets things rolling by questioning the central costs of trusts compared to those of the local authorities in the past. Chris is well-informed on such matters and explains that comparisons are tricky because the actual personal salaries are not made public. Frank considers the growth of specialist subject advisers on permanent contracts in central teams and wonders the merits of this approach.


    Chris then reflects on the encouraging news that more political parties including the government, want to strengthen the public perception of vocational pathways. Chris prefers to use the word 'professional' rather than 'vocational'. We then consider how important it is to view this issue across all phases of education, rather than it being seen as a Post-16 issue. Stan and Frank then gain valuable insights into the number of L2 and L3 courses available and the proportion that are 'vocational'.


    Frank closes the chat by reflecting on a paper he wrote this week about the School Curriculum Award and how it resonated with Chris' weekly newsletter that covered the curriculum and accountability developments in Estonia.


    Really interesting stuff, and makes clear to both Stan and Frank how fortunate they are to have such brilliant guests each week. It is some of the best professional development they experience and it's free!!!


    Enjoy.

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    37 mins
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