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Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chats

By: Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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 Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.

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© 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
Episodes
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 224

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 224
    May 16 2025

    Just the two gents this week and they consider governance, leadership and the 'fit and proper' test for football, rugby league and MAT leadership. With Salford City Reds facing a winding-up order for non-payment of taxes Stan considers how they got into this position while Frank considers the journey of his beloved Southend Utd which faced similar difficulties recently. They consider the importance of honesty and transparency in leadership and Frank is quick to highlight the work of Prof Marianne Jennings and her book The Seven Signs of Ethical Collapse'. By the way, she's agreed to join our chat, we just need to pin down a date.


    Frank then reflects on the recent chats with Rebecca Hanson and Aelwyn Pugh and explains why they were so impactful. The chat then considers CEO salaries and the redundancies one high profile MAT is facing and why it feels wrong when senior leaders earn so much.


    We hope you enjoy it.

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    40 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 223

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 223
    May 12 2025
    Every now and again Frank and Stan give full rein to our guest, especially if they want to share some insight that is challenging or even provocative. This is what happened when Aelwyn Pugh, a former highly experienced HMI joined us again for our weekly chat. Aelwyn had prepared a carefully considered his thoughts on the issue of social mobility and how it had enabled him to progress. He also reflected on the type of education he received and how it enabled him to challenge orthodoxy and helped him to better understand the world. He considers how Germany undertook a deeper soul-searching of their past and how this has ensured they view the world in a more rounded way. Throughout the chat Aelwyn is mindful of the vital role education plays in guiding and supporting young people. He is highly critical of some who view this important role as purely an examination machine. For him, education is so much more. It is a highly thoughtful chat with Aelwyn offering a compelling view of past education mistakes and how things can be improved.

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    37 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 222

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 222
    Apr 30 2025

    After a short break the Frank and Stan Chat returns with a familiar guest joining us again. Brian Lightman, the former leader of ASCL (for 6 years) and secondary Headteacher of two Welsh schools, author and education consultant returns to consider

    - the role of Facebook in deciding on which school to select

    - the dangers of the current Ofsted inspection proposals

    - the role of the RISE teams and they intersect with existing school improvement programmes and strategies

    - the lack of a clear vision for education, and

    - balancing the budget.


    The chat ends on a more positive note with better news on teacher recruitment and the possible push for more Drama teachers which may indicate a shift in focus coming through the Francis Curriculum Review.


    A great way to start the summer series of chats. Enjoy.

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    39 mins

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