When we started the Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020, we thought it would last a week or two. It was a way for the two friends to keep in touch during the various Covid lockdowns. Astonishingly, the chats have now reached the 250 mark. We never planned to have a certain guest for this special edition. To be honest, we don't work in that way. Setting up the chats relies on a number of diaries coming together, but we were pleased to have the amazing Paul Ainsworth with us for this special chat. Paul has been a guest twice before and we have found his support and engagement an important part of why we continue to meet every week and record the chats.

This recording is slightly different because we reflect on the chats and how they developed, we than have Paul discussing an article he had published earlier that day where he considers the outcomes of the first batch of Ofsted inspections and then it closes with Frank returning to Chat No. 102 where his brother, a former HMI with Estyn shares what he would put in Room 101.

A lovely discussion and a suitable one for a chat that is always meant to be kind and reflective.

Enjoy.

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When we started the Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020, we thought it would last a week or two. It was a way for the two friends to keep in touch during the various Covid lockdowns. Astonishingly, the chats have now reached the 250 mark. We never planned to have a certain guest for this special edition. To be honest, we don't work in that way. Setting up the chats relies on a number of diaries coming together, but we were pleased to have the amazing Paul Ainsworth with us for this special chat. Paul has been a guest twice before and we have found his support and engagement an important part of why we continue to meet every week and record the chats.

This recording is slightly different because we reflect on the chats and how they developed, we than have Paul discussing an article he had published earlier that day where he considers the outcomes of the first batch of Ofsted inspections and then it closes with Frank returning to Chat No. 102 where his brother, a former HMI with Estyn shares what he would put in Room 101.

A lovely discussion and a suitable one for a chat that is always meant to be kind and reflective.

Enjoy.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A fascinating chat this week with Richard Ronksley, CEO of Altus Education Partnership based in and around Rochdale. The multi-academy trust was established in April 2017 by the governing body of Rochdale Sixth Form College, an outstanding A level provider established in 2010. In 2019, the Trust opened a new free school - Edgar Wood Academy - which serves the local community in Middleton and Heywood. In 2022, Kingsway Park High School joined and then in 2023, the first primary school, Bamford Academy got on board. Caldershaw Primary School is the most recent member to join in July 2025.

Richard provides an assured and considered approach when discussing the impact of strong post-16 provision in an area. We consider how highly effective Colleges lift ambition and provide access to further education and the workplace. He explains how his career was largely about walking a particular path in a particular way and taking opportunities as they arise.

Stan considers the impact of Sir Ken Robinson on his thinking and how his work, including the various keynotes that have been recorded, have been an inspiration with an emphasis on creativity. Richard then draws attention to an 18th Century Catholic guidance book he saved from a bonfire and how the instructions largely remain relevant today. Frank then reflects on a recent discussion with some trade union and professional association leaders, where he was unguarded and frustrated. He also draws attention to the introduction of the book Taking Back Control 3 by Paul Garvey. The introduction was written by Edmund Barnet-Ward, a governor at Caversham Primary School. It is a tour de force and worth reading.

We hope you enjoy the chat.

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Mel Ainscow is an eminent academic and practitioner who is particularly interested in the universal challenge of developing forms of education that make a difference for all children and young people, no matter their characteristics or backgrounds. Drawing on his extensive work in the UK and overseas, Mel explains the six critical aspects that need to be embraced as part of a more effective approach to ensuring that every child matters and they matter equally.

During the discussion Mel explains how some existing policy positions and historical approaches hinder progress in ensuring greater equity and inclusion. He is at pains to argue that context matters because social factors, political factors and cultural factors impinge on potential improvement. He draws on some recent work where effective cooperation and collaboration have encouraged more schools to share their knowledge and approaches. He then ponders why less progress in tackling issues beyond the school gate have not been tackled. He closes the chat with optimism as he recalls recent progress in Dundee and the Merseyside Region.

Mel is always good value. He's engaging and realistic. We hope the chat is helpful and don't forget his most recent book "Reforming Education Systems for Inclusion and Equity' is available at all good bookshops, including online.

Enjoy

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It is always a pleasure to welcome a guest onto the Frank and Stan Chat who actually watches our weekly chats regularly. Laura McPhee is Director of Education at the University Schools Trust in London. She's a former Headteacher who is committed to social justice and also lectures at the South Bank University. She's currently finalising her second book before it goes to publication later this year. It follows her first book, which was very well received, called 'Tackling Poverty and Disadvantage in Schools'.

The chat begins with Laura explaining her career journey before we break with tradition and ask her, 'What has caught her eye this week?' She explains the optimism she felt when the government published its long-awaited violence against women and girls (VAWG) strategy on 18th December 2025, This followed a clear manifesto commitment to halve this abuse within a decade. Laura explained how the timing of the release of the strategy was unfortunate, being so close to the Christmas break. She is expecting schools to begin to consider any necessary changes in their approach shortly. She was shocked, however with the way the media and social media responded and immediately took a polarising viewpoint.

Stan considers the difficulty older citizens face in using a largely digital system within the NHS. Frank celebrates the amazing evening he watching 'Singing in the Rain' at the Royal Exchange Theatre as well as the good news that northern railways are likely to improve and places are going to be better connected. It is going to be a long wait, but he hopes schools will begin to consider the employment opportunities and help deliver the improvements.

A great chat. Enjoy

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It has taken a little while to agree on a slot but, at last Adrian Bethune, founder of Teachappy, part-time Primary School teacher, Lead author for Oxford University Press' International Wellbeing Curriculum, Deputy Chair of the strategic board for Well Schools, Associate lecturer at Oxford Brookes University, Wellbeing Governor at Broughton Community Schools and most importantly, father to two young boys joins our chat. And what a brilliant guest he turns out to be. In fact, the discussion around pupil and teacher wellbeing engulfs the conversation so much that we only have time for Adrian to share his 'what's caught your eye' this week slot.

The conversation considers some of the practical issues that can support better wellbeing for staff, but this then leans into how teaching staff can support their pupils better in managing their own physical and emotional wellbeing. Adrian draws on international comparisons and considers the vast array of research on the topic of well-being in making a case for it to be more prominent in judging how effectively schools are led.

Adrian draws attention to a book he is currently reading called 'Poor' by Katriona O'Sullivan. He explains how the author draws on her struggles as a child and how they continue to impact her through adult life. Frank then recalls the work of Kerry Hudson called 'Lowborn' that follows a similar vein. These act as a timely reminder of the reality of deep poverty.

A brilliant chat. Adrian has agreed to return to the chat, and we are very keen to make this happen.

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Happy New Year! We are delighted to upload a fascinating chat we had with Dame Kathy August. Kathy is a former Headteacher, a senior local education authority leader, Manchester's first academy CEO, former Board member at Ofsted and Honorary Visiting Professor at Salford Business School. She's also an author and now works as an independent adviser. So, an impressive and varied career which comes to light during a wide ranging chat.

Stan gets things moving by considering 'survivor bias'. He reflects on the choices made by politicians and education leaders who are heavily influenced by their own education experiences. These are usually viewed as successful. Stan makes the point that more attention needs to be given to those failed by the system to better understand what needs to be changed to help them succeed, therefore avoiding inherent 'survivor bias.

Kathy then reflects on the proposal to introduce MAT inspections. She's in favour but highlights the dangers and pitfalls in the proposal. She is concerned how a value for money judgement would be reached and how the associated inspection Framework would be developed. Frank explains how MAT inspections could be used to reduce the impact and number of school inspections.

Frank then considers a quote he saw from Neil Jurd, author of The Leadership Book and former guest on the Frank and Stan Chat. We discuss the impact of influencers and Frank wonders whether he is such a person. Kathy offers insight into the negativity of such individuals. The quote is copied here

'I am sometimes asked to account for the success of influential people whose leadership style is so different from the inclusive and positive leadership style that I advocate. The usual examples are self-serving politicians whose style is divisive and egotistical, or further along the same scale, dictators, and despots. But of course, there are self-centred, narcissistic, and egotistic people thriving in senior positions in all walks of life. You may know some, and their energy and impact are likely to be negative.

These people inhabit senior positions, but their intrinsic motivation is usually self-centred; they lead in order to serve their own purposes. For their own recognition and wealth, rather than for any greater good. In my experience, these people do not lead in the truest sense of the word. I call this 'false leadership'; it is presented as leadership, and it looks like leadership from a distance, but it lacks the meaning, substance and positivity of the real thing.'

There is so much more covered in the chat but you will have to watch or listen to find the gems.

Enjoy.

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The final Frank and Stan Chat of 2025 sees them chatting with Jan Allen, a former Headteacher of a large secondary school in Rochdale and now the Director of the Education Community Partnership. Jan decided to step away from headship at a time when many would have decided to stay. She had achieved a Good Ofsted but felt she needed a new challenge. As someone committed to the community she served, she decided to try and support students and young people who face multiple and considerable challenges through working with voluntary agencies and charities. She admits the recent experiences have provided a deeper insight into the impact of poverty and the challenges young people face.

Stan considers the Reform Party's proposals to utilise the spaces available in rarely used churches to help address the SEND crisis. He believes it is a crazy and ill-considered idea. Jan then reflects on the well-publicised Safeguarding report on the approaches to behaviour management at Mossbourne MVP in London. We all consider the response from the government's behaviour tsar over the issue and how the report author appears to have successfully held a secure handle on the issues. Frank then reflects on an article he recently published by Forum Strategy that focuses on the importance of the community.

It's a wide-ranging discussion. We hope you enjoy it. We are back in early 2026. Happy festive greetings from us both.

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