In this episode we explore the critical distinction between schooling and education—and why it matters more than ever. Drawing from his book Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education, Prof Dr Ger Graus OBE challenges us to rethink how we prepare children not just for exams, but for lifelong learning.

From conversations with Reggio Emilia's Carla Rinaldi to insights on India's National Education Plan, this episode examines how different systems approach the fundamental question: is schooling enabling education, or limiting it? Ger and Mark discuss the narrowing of curricula, the disconnect between political agendas and educational best practice, and the untapped potential of museums, libraries, and cultural institutions as essential learning partners.

With passionate calls for cross-party consensus on children's wellbeing and a reimagining of what it means to truly educate rather than simply school, this conversation is a rallying cry for parents, educators, and policymakers to refocus on what children actually need to thrive in the modern world—not the industrial revolution.

Key Quotes

"The better schooled you are, the better educated you can be if you wish to be."

"We don't talk about wellbeing, we talk about not wellbeing. The entire conversation is never about, oh my God, I feel so great. The entire conversation is, I feel so lousy."

"If you are going to study Shakespeare with children and young people...... they should either get the chance to see the play or to be in it...... you could not be in an outstanding school if you don't adhere to those things."

"The bar in England in that sense is set unbelievably low. Please do not look to England as an example of best practice."

Key Takeaways

1. Schooling ≠ Education - Schooling is a 10-15 year period within a lifetime of education (ages 0-99). In an ideal system, schooling should be an enabler that equips people to become lifelong learners, not just to pass exams or accumulate credentials.
2. The Dutch Advantage - The Dutch language uses the same word for teaching and learning, conceptually removing the artificial separation. This linguistic integration reflects a more holistic approach where teaching and learning are seen as complementary parts of the same process.
3. Cultural Institutions Are Underutilized - Museums, libraries, galleries, theatres, and music venues are crying out for audiences while schools struggle within narrow curricula. There's enormous untapped potential in creating systematic partnerships between schools and these cultural institutions to enrich both education and teaching.
4. We Need Cross-Party Consensus - Educational policy suffers from constant reinvention with each new government. Creating a consensus on core priorities (wellbeing, music, physical education, etc.) that transcends political cycles would provide stability and allow genuine progress rather than perpetual wheel-reinventing.
5. Shift from "Not Wellbeing" to "Wellbeing" - Current conversations focus on problems (obesity, knife crime, mental health issues) rather than positive wellbeing. Education policy should reframe the dialogue to proactively build wellbeing through entitlements like music, arts, and cultural participation—things that make us feel good, not just prevent us from feeling bad.

Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your...

This episode explores how children's aspirations are fundamentally shaped by their experiences and what they're exposed to. Drawing from Prof Dr Ger Graus's groundbreaking work with the Wythenshawe Education Action Zone and Manchester Airport, they unpack the reality that children from disadvantaged backgrounds often can't dream of careers they've never seen.

The conversation moves from airports to universities, examining how partnership between education and industry can transform lives. Ger shares compelling research from KidZania revealing that stereotypes are set by age 4, and discusses the Children's University model that brought families into higher education spaces for the first time.

Ger challenges listeners to think beyond traditional schooling, emphasizing the critical importance of out-of-school experiences, parental engagement, and creating purposeful learning that helps young people discover why education matters—not just what they must learn.

Key Quotes

"If you have a strong purpose in life, you don't have to be pushed. Your passion will drive you there." - Roy T. Bennett (quoted by Ger Graus)

"Don't you know that people from Wythenshawe don't fly planes?" - 6-7 year old children to Ger Graus

This heartbreaking response reveals how aspirational lids are placed on children's jars from an early age, limiting what they believe is possible for themselves.

"We get hung up on schooling more than education...we're quite happy to alienate the parents. We actually don't want much to do with the parents." - Ger Graus

"We need to draw the parents in, we must make them our co-educators...it takes a village to raise a child. Well, we need to remember that the village consists of different components and parents and grandparents are very important but we must engage them." - Ger Graus

"Give me a confident learner and I'll bring you the grades." - Ger Graus

This powerful statement challenges the system's focus on test results over building confident, independent learners who can thrive in any context.

Key Takeaways

1. Children can only aspire to careers and opportunities they know exist—exposure matters
2. Stereotypes about career choices are set by age 4, yet we don't discuss futures until age 14
3. Partnerships between schools, businesses, and communities create win-win situations
4. Out-of-school experiences are not luxuries—they're essential for breaking cycles of disadvantage
5. True education requires engaging parents as co-educators, not alienating them
6. We need futures awareness in primary schools, not just careers education in secondary schools

Join the conversation using #educationonfire and share your stories of expanding children's horizons.

Chapters:

1. 00:10 - Celebrating Milestones in Education
2. 00:39 - Introduction to the Series: Gare Grouse Gets Gritty
3. 12:50 - Aspirations and Limitations: The Impact of Local Perceptions on Career Choices
4. 17:55 - The Importance of Experience in Learning

In this first episode of a special 10-part series named Ger Graus Gets Gritty, Mark Taylor sits down with Professor Dr. Ger Graus OBE to launch an honest conversation about education and schooling.

Following the release of Ger's book "Through a Different Lens: Lessons from a Life in Education" this series uses each chapter as a springboard for examining what's working—and what isn't—in our education systems.

In this episode Ger shares his personal journey from a difficult childhood in the Netherlands to becoming a passionate advocate for experience-based learning. He reflects on how one transformative teacher changed his trajectory, the crucial differences between primary and secondary education, and why putting children at the centre of learning must be more than just rhetoric.

This episode tackles the benefit of hindsight, the importance of storytelling in education, and why courage is needed to swim against the current of compliance-driven schooling.

Key Quotes

"If you're a teacher, just realize that 50 years from now someone will say your name... That's your responsibility, whether to say good things or bad things, nice things or not so nice things. That's in your gift and that's in your hands."

"The minute you touch on an abstract in your lesson, the next thing that should happen is, comma, for example, the two most important words in that lesson. Because what that means is that you exemplify, you tell a story effectively, you take these children in mind and heart, you take them on a short journey."

"What we have become is accountable to the system and not accountable to the child."

"I think we need to make education and schooling and the connection between the two much more of a societal dialogue."

"Children can only aspire to what they know exists."

Takeaways:

1. The podcast marks a significant milestone, celebrating ten years and 500 episodes, highlighting the journey of Education on Fire.
2. Professor Dr. Ger Graus OBE's engagement signifies a collaborative effort to address pressing educational issues through meaningful dialogue.
3. The series titled 'Ger Graus Gets Gritty' aims to promote positive change in education, focusing on the welfare of children and supportive learning environments.
4. Listeners are encouraged to participate in the conversation and share stories that advocate for the well-being of children in educational settings.
5. The podcast emphasizes the importance of community involvement in education, asserting that collective action is essential for fostering supportive learning experiences.
6. The discussion raises critical questions about the current educational system, advocating for reforms that prioritize children's needs over economic or political agendas.

Chapters:

1. 00:08 - Celebrating Milestones in Education
2. 01:09 - The Importance of Community in Education
3. 23:31 - The Importance of Storytelling in Education
4. 33:03 - Reflections on Childhood and Education