Episode co-host:

• Marina Kaganovich, Enterprise Trust Lead, Office of the CISO, Google Cloud

Guest:

• James Sherer, Partner at BakerHostetler

Topics

• Is AI just an emerging technology or something bigger, deeper and different? Is this another emerging technology or a fundamental shift?
• How to effectively govern something that is rapidly changing at unprecedented velocity? We navigated the governance of the Internet and SaaS. What makes AI governance fundamentally different from the "Classic IT" or Data Governance models of the past?
• As we move toward Agentic AI, the line between tool and teammate blurs. Should we be governing AI agents through the lens of Technical Controls or Human Resources and behavioral contracts?
• What if we hand even more responsibility to AI? Where are the tipping points as we shift from assistance to autonomy?
• How to avoid unintended, negative consequences when setting policy, contrasting risk-based vs. rights-based regulation and regulatory expectations
• Give us some practical takeaways for a defensible AI program - if an organization had to defend its AI program to a regulator or a judge tomorrow?

Related episodes:

• Video version
• EP235 The Autonomous Frontier: Governing AI Agents from Code to Courtroom
• EP161 Cloud Compliance: A Lawyer - Turned Technologist! - Perspective on Navigating the Cloud
• EP237 Making Security Personal at the Speed and Scale of TikTok

Guests:

• No guests

Topics:

• So what have we seen at Google Cloud Next 2026?
• Any closing loops for our 2023-2025 Cloud Next observations?
• We are seeing that AI security is not an island ... what does that tell us about the difference between cloud and AI adoption?
• What does "ragged edge of AI adoption" mean for security?
• Why do people want agents in their SOC? Do they know what gets better?
• What are the most notable and fun announcements?
• With patching speed, are we looking at something which can be overcome by engineering and courage? Or are we looking at something that is truly an impossibility?

Resources:

• Video version
• EP221 Special - Semi-Live from Google Cloud Next 2025: AI, Agents, Security ... Cloud?
• Next '26: Redefining security for the AI era with Google Cloud and Wiz
• Breaking the Patch Sound Barrier: Your Vulnerability Remediation Will Not Keep Up With AI Exploit Speed. So?
• EP169 Google Cloud Next 2024 Recap: Is Cloud an Island, So Much AI, Bots in SecOps
• Defending Your Enterprise When AI Models Can Find Vulnerabilities Faster Than Ever
• EP137 Next 2023 Special: Conference Recap - AI, Cloud, Security, Magical Hallway Conversations
• 260 things we announced at Google Cloud Next '26 – a recap

Guest:

• Grant Dasher, ex-CISA, ex-Google, Distinguished Engineer, Google (again)

Topics:

• Why is the "Secure-by-Design" movement gaining so much momentum now, and is it a response to the failure of "bolted-on" security, or just a natural evolution of cloud maturity?
• In a future Secure-by-Design world, is identity the only perimeter that actually matters anymore? Or is this a cliche?
• As we move toward a world of autonomous agents, how does our approach to machine identity need to change? Are we just talking about more complex Service Accounts, or do we need a fundamental shift in how we authorize "intent"
• What is your advice to people who want to move fast and cannot wait for Secure by Design / Default AI to be decided by consensus or IETF, NIST or OASIS committee?
• We love the argument that modern AI agents are effectively repeating the mistakes of 1960s payphones - mixing the data plane and the control plane. What is your rebuttal? How do we build "Agentic Security" that doesn't fall for 60-year-old traps?
• Customers are torn between their Zero Trust implementations and their AI adoption. Is Zero Trust now "legacy," or is it the prerequisite for everything we're trying to do with AI agents?
• Is there Zero Trust for AI? Is this a fake buzzword or technical reality?

Resources:

• Video version
• EP256 Rewiring Democracy & Hacking Trust: Bruce Schneier on the AI Offense-Defense Balance
• EP133 The Shared Problem of Alerting: More SRE Lessons for Security
• EP85 Deploy Security Capabilities at Scale: SRE Explains How
• Google SRE books
• "Atomic Accidents" book (yes, really)