Guests:

• no guests, just us in the studio

Topics:

• At RSA 2025, did we see solid, measurably better outcomes from AI use in security, or mostly just "sizzle" and good ideas with potential?
• Are the promises of an "AI SOC" repeating the mistakes seen with SOAR in previous years regarding fully automated security operations? Does "AI SOC" work according to RSA floor?
• How realistic is the vision expressed by some [yes, really!] that AI progress could lead to technical teams, including IT and security, shrinking dramatically or even to zero in a few years?
• Why do companies continue to rely on decades-old or “non-leading” security technologies, and what role does the concept of a "organizational change budget" play in this inertia?
• Is being "AI Native" fundamentally better for security technologies compared to adding AI capabilities to existing platforms, or is the jury still out? Got "an AI-native SIEM"? Be ready to explain how is yours better!

Resources:

• EP172 RSA 2024: Separating AI Signal from Noise, SecOps Evolves, XDR Declines?
• EP119 RSA 2023 - What We Saw, What We Learned, and What We're Excited About
• EP70 Special - RSA 2022 Reflections - Securing the Past vs Securing the Future
• RSA (“RSAI”) Conference 2024 Powered by AI with AI on Top — AI Edition (Hey AI, Is This Enough AI?) [Anton’s RSA 2024 recap blog]
• New Paper: “Future of the SOC: Evolution or Optimization — Choose Your Path” (Paper 4 of 4.5) [talks about the change budget discussed]

Guests:

• Kirstie Failey @ Google Threat Intelligence Group
• Scott Runnels @ Mandiant Incident Response

Topics:

• What is the hardest thing about turning distinct incident reports into a fun to read and useful report like M-Trends?
• How much are the lessons and recommendations skewed by the fact that they are all “post-IR” stories?
• Are “IR-derived” security lessons the best way to improve security? Isn’t this a bit like learning how to build safely from fires vs learning safety engineering?
• The report implies that F500 companies suffer from certain security issues despite their resources, does this automatically mean that smaller companies suffer from the same but more?
• "Dwell time" metrics sound obvious, but is there magic behind how this is done? Sometimes “dwell tie going down” is not automatically the defender’s win, right?
• What is the expected minimum dwell time? If “it depends”, then what does it depend on?
• Impactful outliers vs general trends (“by the numbers”), what teaches us more about security?
• Why do we seem to repeat the mistakes so much in security?
• Do we think it is useful to give the same advice repeatedly if the data implies that it is correct advice but people clearly do not do it?

Resources:

• M-Trends 2025 report
• Mandiant Attack Lifecycle
• EP205 Cybersecurity Forecast 2025: Beyond the Hype and into the Reality
• EP147 Special: 2024 Security Forecast Report

Guests:

• No guests [Tim in Vegas and Anton remote]

Topics:

• So, another Next is done. Beyond the usual Vegas chaos, what was the overarching security theme or vibe you [Tim] felt dominated the conference this year?
• Thinking back to Next '24, what felt genuinely different this year versus just the next iteration of last year's trends?
• Last year, we pondered the 'Cloud Island' vs. 'Cloud Peninsula'. Based on Next 2025, is cloud security becoming more integrated with general cyber security, or is it still its own distinct domain?
• What wider trends did you observe, perhaps from the expo floor buzz or partner announcements, that security folks should be aware of?
• What was the biggest surprise for you at Next 2025? Something you absolutely didn't see coming?
• Putting on your prediction hats (however reluctantly): based on Next 2025, what do you foresee as the major cloud security focus or challenge for the industry in the next 12 months?
• If a busy podcast listener listening could only take one key message or action item away from everything announced and discussed at Next 2025, what should it be?

Resources:

• EP169 Google Cloud Next 2024 Recap: Is Cloud an Island, So Much AI, Bots in SecOps

Guests:

• Michael Cote, Cloud VRP Lead, Google Cloud
• Aadarsh Karumathil, Security Engineer, Google Cloud

Topics:

• Vulnerability response at cloud-scale sounds very hard! How do you triage vulnerability reports and make sure we’re addressing the right ones in the underlying cloud infrastructure?
• How do you determine how much to pay for each vulnerability? What is the largest reward we paid? What was it for?
• What products get the most submissions? Is this driven by the actual product security or by trends and fashions like AI?
• What are the most likely rejection reasons?
• What makes for a very good - and exceptional? - vulnerability report? We hear we pay more for “exceptional” reports, what does it mean?
• In college Tim had a roommate who would take us out drinking on his Google web app vulnerability rewards. Do we have something similar for people reporting vulnerabilities in our cloud infrastructure? Are people making real money off this?
• How do we actually uniquely identify vulnerabilities in the cloud? CVE does not work well, right?
• What are the expected risk reduction benefits from Cloud VRP?

Resources:

• Cloud VRP site
• Cloud VPR launch blog
• CVR: The Mines of Kakadûm

Guest:

• Steve Ledzian, APAC CTO, Mandiant at Google Cloud

Topics:

• We've seen a shift in how boards engage with cybersecurity. From your perspective, what's the most significant misconception boards still hold about cyber risk, particularly in the Asia Pacific region, and how has that impacted their decision-making?
• Cybersecurity is rife with jargon. If you could eliminate or redefine one overused term, which would it be and why? How does this overloaded language specifically hinder effective communication and action in the region?
• The Mandiant Attack Lifecycle is a well-known model. How has your experience in the East Asia region challenged or refined this model? Are there unique attack patterns or actor behaviors that necessitate adjustments?
• Two years post-acquisition, what's been the most surprising or unexpected benefit of the Google-Mandiant combination?
• M-Trends data provides valuable insights, particularly regarding dwell time. Considering the Asia Pacific region, what are the most significant factors reducing dwell time, and how do these trends differ from global averages?
• Given your expertise in Asia Pacific, can you share an observation about a threat actor's behavior that is often overlooked in broader cybersecurity discussions?
• Looking ahead, what's the single biggest cybersecurity challenge you foresee for organizations in the Asia Pacific region over the next five years, and what proactive steps should they be taking now to prepare?

Resources:

• EP177 Cloud Incident Confessions: Top 5 Mistakes Leading to Breaches from Mandiant
• EP156 Living Off the Land and Attacking Critical Infrastructure: Mandiant Incident Deep Dive
• EP191 Why Aren't More Defenders Winning? Defender’s Advantage and How to Gain it!

Guest:

• Henrique Teixeira, Senior VP of Strategy, Saviynt, ex-Gartner analyst

Topics:

• How have you seen IAM evolve over the years, especially with the shift to the cloud, and now AI? What are some of the biggest challenges and opportunities these two shifts present?
• ITDR (Identity Threat Detection and Response) and ISPM (Identity Security Posture Management) are emerging areas in IAM. How do you see these fitting into the overall IAM landscape? Are they truly distinct categories or just extensions of existing IAM practices?
• Shouldn’t ITDR just be part of your Cloud DR or maybe even your SecOps tool of choice? It seems goofy to try to stand ITDR on its own when the impact of an identity compromise is entirely a function of what that identity can access or do, no?
• Regarding workload vs. human identity, could you elaborate on the unique security considerations for each? How does the rise of machine identities and APIs impact IAM approaches?
• We had a whole episode around machine identity that involved turtles–what have you seen in the machine identity space and how have you seen users mess it up?
• The cybersecurity world is full of acronyms. Any tips on how to create a memorable and impactful acronym?

Resources:

• EP166 Workload Identity, Zero Trust and SPIFFE (Also Turtles!)
• EP182 ITDR: The Missing Piece in Your Security Puzzle or Yet Another Tool to Buy?
• EP127 Is IAM Really Fun and How to Stay Ahead of the Curve in Cloud IAM?
• EP94 Meet Cloud Security Acronyms with Anna Belak
• EP162 IAM in the Cloud: What it Means to Do It 'Right' with Kat Traxler
• EP199 Your Cloud IAM Top Pet Peeves (and How to Fix Them)
• EP188 Beyond the Buzzwords: Identity's True Role in Cloud and SaaS Security
• “Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works” book
• “Open” book

Guest:

• Alex Polyakov, CEO at Adversa AI

Topics:

• Adversa AI is known for its focus on AI red teaming and adversarial attacks. Can you share a particularly memorable red teaming exercise that exposed a surprising vulnerability in an AI system? What was the key takeaway for your team and the client?
• Beyond traditional adversarial attacks, what emerging threats in the AI security landscape are you most concerned about right now?
• What trips most clients, classic security mistakes in AI systems or AI-specific mistakes?
• Are there truly new mistakes in AI systems or are they old mistakes in new clothing?
• I know it is not your job to fix it, but much of this is unfixable, right?
• Is it a good idea to use AI to secure AI?

Resources:

• EP84 How to Secure Artificial Intelligence (AI): Threats, Approaches, Lessons So Far
• AI Red Teaming Reasoning LLM US vs China: Jailbreak Deepseek, Qwen, O1, O3, Claude, Kimi
• Adversa AI blog
• Oops! 5 serious gen AI security mistakes to avoid
• Generative AI Fast Followership: Avoid These First Adopter Security Missteps

Guest:

• James Campbell, CEO, Cado Security
• Chris Doman, CTO, Cado Security

Topics:

• Cloud Detection and Response (CDR) vs Cloud Investigation and Response Automation(CIRA) ... what’s the story here? There is an “R” in CDR, right?
• Can’t my (modern) SIEM/SOAR do that? What about this becoming a part of modern SIEM/SOAR in the future?
• What gets better when you deploy a CIRA (a) and your CIRA in particular (b)?
• Ephemerality and security, what are the fun overlaps? Does “E” help “S” or hurts it? What about compliance? Ephemeral compliance sounds iffy…
• Cloud investigations, what is special about them?
• How does CSPM intersect with this? Is CIRA part of CNAPP?
• A secret question, need to listen for it!

Resources:

• EP157 Decoding CDR & CIRA: What Happens When SecOps Meets Cloud
• EP67 Cyber Defense Matrix and Does Cloud Security Have to DIE to Win?
• EP158 Ghostbusters for the Cloud: Who You Gonna Call for Cloud Forensics
• Cloud security incidents (Rami McCarthy)
• Cado resources