Episodes

  • 476: Be Medieval, Rack that Cider| Secondary Fermentation

    476: Be Medieval, Rack that Cider| Secondary Fermentation
    Nov 5 2025
    How to clarify, stabilize, and finish cider the right way The Purpose of Secondary Fermentation when Making Cider Once the apple juice has started fermented and it is now slowing down, it is time to rack over your cider for secondary fermentation. Secondary fermentation is where your cider moves from "young" to "refined." This stage improves clarity, stability, and overall quality before bottling or serving. 00:00 – Introduction and Welcome 00:27 – Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller 00:45 – The Magic of Clothes Pins 01:14 – Episode Overview: Secondary Fermentation 01:55 – Replay Announcement: Season 8, Episode 386 02:14 – Cider Making in the Northern Hemisphere 02:34 – Cider Making Resources and Equipment 06:09 – Totally Cider Tours 13:29 – Upcoming New York Cider Festival 15:31 – Featured Presentation: Clearing Cloudy Cider 24:01 – Observing Fermentation Activity 24:21 – Timing and Patience in Cider Making 24:54 – Understanding Racking Over 25:32 – Dealing with Stuck Fermentation 26:59 – Secondary Fermentation Indicators 27:47 – Preparing for Racking Over 29:13 – Racking Over Process 30:49 – Using Sulfites and Equipment 35:32 – Handling Head Space and Lees 38:38 – Final Tips and Bottling 42:43 – Supporters and Closing Remarks Why Secondary Fermentation Matters Secondary fermentation helps your cider: Improve the overall quality and characteristics of the final product during secondary fermentation by; Clarify: After the vigorous primary fermentation phase, yeast, pulp, and particulate matter settle out. Giving the cider time in secondary creates that clean, bright look in the glass. Stabilize: Letting the cider relax in a less active fermentation state helps smooth out rough edges and reduces the risk of funky off-character flavors. Reduce Bottle Sediment: Most of the lees settle in the secondary fermenter — not in your final bottles — giving you a cleaner, professional-looking cider. Avoid Off-Flavors: Yeast that sits too long on the lees can break down (autolyze) and create harsh, unpleasant aromas. Racking to secondary moves the cider off that yeast layer and protects the finished profile.. Secondary fermentation is a crucial step for refining cider, enhancing its clarity, taste, and stability before it is consumed or sold. Past Cider Making Episodes 381 DIY Cider Making for Beginners382 Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment384 Beginner Cider Making Tips forPrimary Fermentation When to Transfer to Secondary Primary fermentation must be substantially complete. Signs include: – Airlock activity slows way down – Gravity readings stabilize over several days – Visible bubbling is minimal – A firm lees bed is forming at the bottom – Taste test confirms sugar is mostly gone (unless aiming for sweet Equipment needed for Cider's Secondary Ferment Find a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com Extra Apple Juice to for topping offSecondary Fermenter – glass carboy of equal sizeAirlock and BungRacking Cane or Auto-SiphonSanitizerHydrometer or RefractometerTubing & a clothes pin ( a Ria tip to have on hand for clamping tubing as you go so it can be managed to insure that the tube doesn't slip down into the lees and stir them up)Bottle Brush and Cleaning Equipment Determining when Secondary Fermentation Begins Completion of Active Primary Fermentation: Watch and notice when the vigorous phase of primary fermentation is complete, which is typically indicated by a significant decrease in airlock activity or specific gravity readings that are close to the target final gravity.Gravity Readings: Use a hydrometer or refractometer to take consecutive gravity readings over a few days. When readings are consistent, it suggests that fermentation has slowed down enough for secondary transfer.Visual Clues: Look for a drop in the level of visible activity, such as the reduction of bubbles and the beginning of sediment formation at the bottom of the primary fermenter.Taste Test: Conduct a taste test for residual sweetness. If the cider is too sweet, it may need more time in primary fermentation unless the desired style of cider is sweet rather than dry.Timeframe Guidance: Generally, primary fermentation can take anywhere from a few days to two weeks, depending on factors like temperature, yeast strain, and original sugar content.Avoiding Off-Flavors: Transfer before the cider has sat too long on the lees at the bottom of the carboy to prevent off-flavors that can result from yeast autolysis.Specific Style Goals: Factor in the specific goals for the cider's style, as some styles may benefit from a longer or shorter primary fermentation before secondary.Equipment Availability: Ensure that the secondary fermentation vessel is prepared and sanitized before deciding on the transfer to avoid any delays once the cider is ready. Common Problems during Secondary Ferment Stalled Fermentation – Adjust ...
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    46 mins
  • 475: At the UK's National Perry Pear Centre and the Story Behind 99PINES

    475: At the UK's National Perry Pear Centre and the Story Behind 99PINES
    Oct 29 2025
    Perry making has deep roots in Gloucestershire, stretching back to the 17th century when French wine imports were cut off during the Napoleonic Wars. Local farmers turned to their own fruit, and the rich soils around Hartpury proved ideal for growing Perry pears. This episode features audio snapshots from the 2025 Totally Cider Tour stop at the National Perry Pear Centre. Our guide, Phil Kester, volunteers with 99PINES , where he helps preserve the region's rare Perry pear varieties. Phil's passion for Perry and deep local knowledge made this visit one of the tour's highlights. The Roots of the National Perry Pear Centre Charles Martell recognized that Perry orchards across Gloucestershire were disappearing and began documenting rare varieties.His work led to the first National Perry Collection at the Malvern Three Counties Showground, planted with Tom Oliver and others.Jim Chapman later expanded the effort by gifting land at Hartpury. This site is The National Perry Pear Centre and is home to over 100 Perry pear varieties from Gloucestershire and beyond.These orchards safeguard living history, connecting generations through the craft of Perry making. The 99PINES Project The name 99PINES comes from the line of pines atop nearby May Hill, often called the heart of English Perry country. Phil Kester of 99PINESS Phil and the volunteers at 99PINES are working to: Create a local hub to promote Perry culture in pubs and communities.Build a tasting space featuring 80–100 Perry varieties for education and enjoyment.Keep the project sustainable by reinvesting proceeds into orchard care and heritage initiatives. The Art and Challenge of Perry Making Perry is both art and patience. The fruit can rot within days, demanding precise timing at harvest.Perry ferments differently from cider and is more sensitive to bacteria.Varieties like Blakeney Red and Hartpury Green reveal a range of tannins and textures unique to Perry.Phil experiments with bottle conditioning and Pet Nat methods, showing how diverse and expressive Perry can be. Contact info for National Perry Pear Centre and 99PINES National Perry Pear Centre Website: https://www.nationalperrypearcentre.org.uk/ 99PINES Website: https://www.nationalperrypearcentre.org.uk/99pines-perry/ Mentions in this Cider Chat April 27-May3rd 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour to the United KingdomEdulis Restaurant – Toronto Cider House LuncheonsNY Cider Fest November 15, 2026
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    44 mins
  • 474: The Romance of It All | The Temperleys of Somerset Cider & Brandy

    474: The Romance of It All | The Temperleys of Somerset Cider & Brandy
    Oct 22 2025

    At the base of Burrow Hill life moves at the pace of apples and oak. Here, Julian and daughter Matilda Temperley are testment to the value of family for carry a business such as cider and brandy forward into the next 100 years.


    "You have to believe in the Romance of it because you are thinking so far in advance" Matilda Temperly

    From orchards planted for future generations to brandy resting quietly in barrels for decades, the Temperleys embody what it means to think in centuries, not seasons.

    The Cider: Tradition and Terroir

    The mount at Burrow Hill is memorialized in ongoing instagram posts because it provides a magnificent centerpiece of endurance and beauty due to its simplicity of a lone a large sycamore tree, which has become a local landmark and symbol of the Somerset landscape.

    Julian Temperly began planting cider apples trees here over 50 years ago. Today there are acres of orchards in different pockets surrounding Burrow Hill. A notable 75 acre orchard that was purchased from the Showering family years ago now, is touted to be the largest standard cider apple orchard in the world.

    Here you find the classic Burrow Hill cider as a tannic, full-bodied, and balanced drink. The bottle-fermented Kingston Black and Stoke Red ciders are great for hang time with friends or fine dining. Every cider reflects its orchard origin, emphasizing flavor, heritage, and authenticity.

    Distilling Somerset's Spirit

    In 1989, Somerset Cider Brandy became the first licensed distiller of apple brandy in the UK since the 19th century. And they have been awarded Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) status. This status guarantees that the brandy is produced in a consistent and traditional manner within Somerset. Using unique Gazagne stills, which are continuous stills of French design, the Temperleys now have lovely range of offerings from Eau de Vie to 20-year-aged Somerset Cider Brandy. Their Pomona, is a blend of apple juice and brandy, celebrates Somerset roots.

    Looking Ahead

    The Temperly's 100-year plan focuses on replanting traditional orchards, cultivating local oak for future barrels, and sustaining multi-generational stewardship. The goal: to ensure that Burrow Hill remains a place where apples, family, and time converge into something extraordinary.

    Matilda Temperley in the Tasting Room at Somerset Cider & Brandy

    Contact info for Somerset Cider and Brandy at Burrow Hill

    • Website: https://www.somersetciderbrandy.com

    Mentions in this Cider Chat

    • 432: Ancha Gergely's Abaliget Garden Projects | Hungarian Cider Maker
    • 431: Domaine Johanna Cécillon's Elegant Ciders | Brittany FR
    • Totally Cider Tours -
      • UK Cider Tour April 27th - May 3rd, 2026
      • French Cider Tour September 20th - 26th, 2026
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    1 hr and 10 mins
  • 473: Tiny Bubbles | How to Make a Pét Nat Cider

    473: Tiny Bubbles | How to Make a Pét Nat Cider
    Oct 15 2025

    What makes a Pét Nat cider sparkle naturally and how is it connected to the rural method you might have heard about in the UK?

    In this episode, we take a practical look at:

    • What Pét Nat cider is and how it relates to the "rural method"
    • A clearer way to describe fermentation: Active Ferment → Quiet Phase → Maturation
    • When and how to rack cider for clarity and flavor
    • How to time bottling for perfect natural carbonation
    • Using a hydrometer to bottle safely at 1.005–1.010 SG
    • Essential tips for bottle-conditioning without blowouts
    • Why a little yeast haze can add charm to your finished cider

    Key Takeaways

    • Pét Nat (Pétillant Naturel) means naturally sparkling where the bubbles come from fermentation finishing in the bottle.
    • Racking is a simple but essential step to move cider off the lees without introducing oxygen.
    • Skip the jargon: watch what your cider is doing, not just the calendar.
    • Always use champagne-rated bottles and sanitize everything.
    • The reward? Tiny bubbles, wild aroma, and the pure joy of cider alive in the glass.

    Cider Making Resource

    • Cider Maker check list √ go to https://ciderchat.com/cider-making-equipment/
    • Cider Books, Orchard Care, Apple Id and Children's Books

    Mentions in this Cider Chat

    Cider Making How-to Episodes:

    • 095: Cider Making at Home easy as 1-2-3
    • 152: How to teach Cider Making 101
    • 381: DIY Cider Making for Beginners
    • 382: Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment
    • 384: Beginner Cider-Making Tips for Primary Fermentation
    • 386: Managing Cider's Secondary Fermentation – DIY Tips

    Fall Event - November 1, 25th Annual Apple Harvest Fest at Albemarle CiderWorks
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    45 mins
  • 472: Perry to FOMO — A Cider Dinner to Remember in the Malvern Hills

    472: Perry to FOMO — A Cider Dinner to Remember in the Malvern Hills
    Oct 8 2025
    A Toast to Perry and Place Enjoy an intimate recording from the 2025 Totally Cider Tour_UK Edition. This unforgettable evening featured James Forbes of Little Pomona, leading guests through a cider dinner pairing in the Malvern Hills located on the border of Herefordshire and Worcestershire in England. James presents both a welcome Perry, Ciders and a very special aperitif. We beging with Brut Rosé Perry, crafted from perry pears co-fermented with local damsons. James shared how whole damsons are fermented via carbonic maceration to extract their rich color and flavor before being pressed with early season pears. The result: a radiant sparkling Perry with deep fruit notes and remarkable finesse. "We actually ferment the damsons whole in CO₂ and then co-press them with the first pears. It gives a whole new layer of aroma and flavor." — James Forbes A Cider for the Table Next up was a single varietal Stoke Red cider, a rarity from Little Pomona's usual blends. James described it as a "fully fermented" cider that is balanced and dry yet vibrant, with a whisper of natural sweetness from the Rural Method. This approach captures the cider before all sugars ferment out, creating harmony between acidity and fruit. Check out Wilding Episode with Sam Leach on the Rural Method "Stoke Red is one of my top three apples. In a less ripe vintage, that touch of sugar brings perfect balance." Select Cider Apples Dinner continued with Egremont Russet, a still cider with a light sparkle. The russet's golden skin and nutty depth create an almost wine-like cider. Notes of pineapple, anise, and honey appeared with each sip, echoing the richness of the food and the rustic charm of the evening. "FOMO" Caps the Night Dessert brought out a treasure: Little Pomona's "FOMO"—a playful nod to France's Pommeau. Only 192 bottles were made, combining distillate from Bramley apples and Kingston Black juice aged in chestnut barrels. It lent a sweet, amber nectar with layers of floral and plum notes, it was the perfect close to the evening. James Forbes with FOMO "We called it FOMO—a faux Pommeau—because you don't want to miss out on this one." The Spirit of the Malvern Hills The evening concluded with words from Deborah Fox CEO of the Malvern Hills Trust, who shared the rich history and heritage of this cherished landscape—home to ancient Perry pears, cider orchards, and centuries of cultivation. Ria Windcaller and Deborah Fox "We keep the hills unbuilt, un-encroached upon, and un-urbanized. …The Perry pear and cider have always been part of this land's story." Deborah Fox Contact info for Little Pomona Website: https://littlepomona.com Past episodes featuring Little Pomona 126: Little Pomona's Big Ciders! | Herefordshire, UK181: The Cider Insider | 100 Craft Ciders to Drink Now460: James Forbes on Little Pomona's Ciders & Legacy Contact info for Malvern Hills Trust Website: https://www.malvernhills.org.uk Mentions in this Cider Chat Vermont's 1000 Stone Farm – Farmers Hand Kitchen cider to watch for in 2026 Chapeau Bruin 465: The Integrated Table: Cider, Food, and Farming at 1000 Stone Farm Cider Chat Patreon392: Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | OhioTotally Cider Tours – France and UK
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    49 mins
  • 471: Cider Tourism 101 | Newton Court, UK

    471: Cider Tourism 101 | Newton Court, UK
    Oct 1 2025

    Newton Court Cider began as a 30-acre farm selling apples to Bulmers. When the market changed, Paul Stephens turned those same orchards into a modern day cider business.

    Front view of Newton Court's restaurant and visitor centre in Herefordshire, surrounded by orchards and outdoor seating.

    His early inspiration came from Brian Shanks, the co-founder of Bold Rock Cider in Virginia. Though Bold Rock produces cider on a large, industrial scale, it was Brian's perspective as a New Zealander who admired Herefordshire's rich cider apple heritage that sparked Paul's drive to build something lasting at home. Today, the recently built out Newton Court tasting room/restaurant is booming showing that tourist and locals alike are thirsty for a full service destination.

    Cider Making at Newton Court

    It was noted by Paul that his parents open-minded approach helped the farm transistion into the cider destination that it is today. In additon, a recent collaboration with River Cottage led to the award-winning Elderflower Cider, proving that tradition and creativity can thrive together.

    Newton Court remains deeply rooted in sustainable farming and regional pride, helping to preserve the orchards and cider heritage of Herefordshire for future generations.

    Contact Info for Newton Court
    • Website: https://www.newtoncourtcider.com
    • Totally Cider Tours
    Showering – Shepton Mallet Mill horizontal tanks for cider
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    58 mins
  • 470: Hedgers, Crossman's, and Coates: UK Cider's Entwined Histories

    470: Hedgers, Crossman's, and Coates: UK Cider's Entwined Histories
    Sep 24 2025
    In October 2024, Cider Chat MC Ria Windcaller recorded with Tom Vowles of Hedger Cider and Ben Crossman in Somerset. Initially, the two recordings felt like separate brand stories. Then, nearly a year later to the day as the produciton of this audio began and the transcript peeled away a story of entwined history came to light and a shared connection: Coates Cider of Nailsea. Tom Vowles Suddenly a light bulb was illuminated! The Coates Cider Company was at the helm of the story and here at Cider Chat Central we saw the weaving in of the story behind both Nick Showering and Bob Cork episode on Triple Vintage! The story of cider is entwined in surprising ways and make perfect sense! Remembering Tom Vowles Tom walked Ria about his production room which showcased a massive rack and cloth press – that originally came from Coates: "It's a big old press, isn't it? Came out of Coates originally. We've put a lot into getting it running again, and it does the job." – Tom Vowles At the time of this recording Hedgers Cider had been opened for just 14 months and during that time had become a go-to place for cider fans. The fact that it is located 5 minutes from the Bristol Airport and along a major artery from Weston super-Mare to Bristol also helps. What we didn't expect was Tom unexpectedly passing away in June of 2025. At the time of this broadcast in fall of 2025, his wife Jo and their son David is now carrying Hedgers forward. Ben Crossman's Cider and Family History Ben's story reaches back to the 1930s, when his grandfather made cider alongside Redvers Coate. They even at one time considered a partnership. Ben Crossman Tradition: Wild ferments, bittersweet varietiesContinuity: Keeping cider alive through tough decadesParallel: A family path entwined with Coates' rise "It's funny, isn't it? The Coates family were massive, and yet they're not here anymore. But we're still making cider." – Ben Crossman Sidebar: Coates & Triple Vintage Founded 1925 by Redvers Coate in NailseaWartime boost: rationing and zoning expanded markets1951 premium launch: Triple Vintage and Festival Vat1956 takeover: Showerings doubled productionModern link: Showerings' Triple Vintage continues the name – launched in 2023 Reflection: Cider's Market Identity Cider was the choice drink for many and Perry once rivaled champagne and held prestige in Parliament. Today, the challenge is reclaiming value without losing openness. Like vinyl records and artisan bread, cider's comeback requires: Consistency of quality — season after seasonAudience engagement — beyond cider circles, into wine, food, and tourismAuthenticity without snobbery — refined yet welcoming Contact info for Hedgers and Crossman's Hedger Cider: https://www.hedgercider.co.ukCrossman's Cider: https://www.crossmanscider.co.uk Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider ToursAbsolem Cider Apple Pie Bake Off – October 4, 2025 – judging starts at 4pmKanga Cider
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    54 mins
  • 469: Getting Lost, So You Don't | UK Totally Cider Tour 225 Recap

    469: Getting Lost, So You Don't | UK Totally Cider Tour 225 Recap
    Sep 10 2025
    UK Cider Tour 2025 Audio Snap Shots Wallace and Ria in Bristol In this Episode 469 of Cider Chat, we brings listeners inside the UK Totally Cider Tour 2025 through the voices of the guests who joined. From Somerset, Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, to Wales guests on this tour discovered not just cider and perry, but also community, history, and inspiration. First Impressions and Highlights Many guests shared that they signed up to experience places they couldn't access on their own. From the scale of Showering's Cider Mill, the second largest in the country to the intimate welcome at Oliver's, the contrast certainly left a deep impression. The discovery of Perry was a recurring theme. From Ohio travelers Chris and Megan who tasted their very first Perry on the tour, while Rodney from Virginia declared he'd be grafting Perry scions at home. Personal Connections Group Selfie with Sam Leach of Wilding Cider For repeat travelers like Debbie and Bryce from California, the tour reaffirmed how relationships with makers enrich the experience: " They treat us like friends, not tourists." Ancha from Hungary spoke of the joy of hiking the Malvern Hills in the rain and celebrating with fellow cider lovers.Rachel and Mary of Kanga Cider in Texas noted the value of orchard insights for their own plantings back home, while Thomas from Australia praised the tour for covering the full spectrum of producers—from industrial to artisanal. Learning and Inspiration Guests emphasized that tasting ciders in their native terroir cannot be replaced by books or certifications. Dan from Spacetime Mead and Cider Works in Dunmore Pennsylvania highlighted how only by being in Herefordshire or Somerset can one grasp the range of English cider styles. Susan and Tom of Heeman's Cellars in Ontario pointed out how the pacing of the tour allowed real reflection—something missing from busier farm tours. The Takeaway Whether first-timers or repeat guests, everyone agreed: the Totally Cider Tour offers access, education, and camaraderie that can't be replicated alone. As David of Oregon said it best, "It wasn't really about the cider—it was about the people." Contact info for Totally Cider Tours Website page: https://ciderchat.com/totally-cider-tours/ For details on upcoming cider journeys and to join the waitlist, send an email to info@ciderchat.com and write in the heading Totally Cider Tours.Let us know how many are in your partyDestinations you would like to visit Mentions in this Cider Chat Episode 469 425: Babycham to Triple Vintage – The Showering's Cider Legacy450th Roger Wilkins – The Cider King444: Worleys and Honey's: Somerset's Cider Makers441: Wilding Cider and the Rural Method | Somerset, UK454: Wild Ferment Meets Fine Cider: Inside Oliver's Barrel Room460: James Forbes on Little Pomona's Ciders & Legacy432: Ancha Gergely's Abaliget Garden Projects | Hungarian Cider Maker
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    1 hr and 14 mins