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Cider Chat

Cider Chat

By: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist
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 Interviewing cidermakers importers, orchardists, foodies, farmers and cider enthusiasts around the world. Let's delve into the semantics of cider…or is it hard cider, cidre, sidra or fermented apple juice? The truth is out there in Ciderville and we are going to find it. We toast in celebration of cider; As a libation, a gift from the gods, a taste of terroir, and a hard pressed good time. Ready to quench your thirst? Grab a glass and join this chat! See you in Ciderville!© Cider Chat 2014- 2025 Art Cooking Food & Wine Social Sciences Travel Writing & Commentary
Episodes
  • 476: Be Medieval, Rack that Cider| Secondary Fermentation

    476: Be Medieval, Rack that Cider| Secondary Fermentation
    Nov 5 2025
    How to clarify, stabilize, and finish cider the right way The Purpose of Secondary Fermentation when Making Cider Once the apple juice has started fermented and it is now slowing down, it is time to rack over your cider for secondary fermentation. Secondary fermentation is where your cider moves from "young" to "refined." This stage improves clarity, stability, and overall quality before bottling or serving. 00:00 – Introduction and Welcome 00:27 – Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller 00:45 – The Magic of Clothes Pins 01:14 – Episode Overview: Secondary Fermentation 01:55 – Replay Announcement: Season 8, Episode 386 02:14 – Cider Making in the Northern Hemisphere 02:34 – Cider Making Resources and Equipment 06:09 – Totally Cider Tours 13:29 – Upcoming New York Cider Festival 15:31 – Featured Presentation: Clearing Cloudy Cider 24:01 – Observing Fermentation Activity 24:21 – Timing and Patience in Cider Making 24:54 – Understanding Racking Over 25:32 – Dealing with Stuck Fermentation 26:59 – Secondary Fermentation Indicators 27:47 – Preparing for Racking Over 29:13 – Racking Over Process 30:49 – Using Sulfites and Equipment 35:32 – Handling Head Space and Lees 38:38 – Final Tips and Bottling 42:43 – Supporters and Closing Remarks Why Secondary Fermentation Matters Secondary fermentation helps your cider: Improve the overall quality and characteristics of the final product during secondary fermentation by; Clarify: After the vigorous primary fermentation phase, yeast, pulp, and particulate matter settle out. Giving the cider time in secondary creates that clean, bright look in the glass. Stabilize: Letting the cider relax in a less active fermentation state helps smooth out rough edges and reduces the risk of funky off-character flavors. Reduce Bottle Sediment: Most of the lees settle in the secondary fermenter — not in your final bottles — giving you a cleaner, professional-looking cider. Avoid Off-Flavors: Yeast that sits too long on the lees can break down (autolyze) and create harsh, unpleasant aromas. Racking to secondary moves the cider off that yeast layer and protects the finished profile.. Secondary fermentation is a crucial step for refining cider, enhancing its clarity, taste, and stability before it is consumed or sold. Past Cider Making Episodes 381 DIY Cider Making for Beginners382 Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment384 Beginner Cider Making Tips forPrimary Fermentation When to Transfer to Secondary Primary fermentation must be substantially complete. Signs include: – Airlock activity slows way down – Gravity readings stabilize over several days – Visible bubbling is minimal – A firm lees bed is forming at the bottom – Taste test confirms sugar is mostly gone (unless aiming for sweet Equipment needed for Cider's Secondary Ferment Find a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com Extra Apple Juice to for topping offSecondary Fermenter – glass carboy of equal sizeAirlock and BungRacking Cane or Auto-SiphonSanitizerHydrometer or RefractometerTubing & a clothes pin ( a Ria tip to have on hand for clamping tubing as you go so it can be managed to insure that the tube doesn't slip down into the lees and stir them up)Bottle Brush and Cleaning Equipment Determining when Secondary Fermentation Begins Completion of Active Primary Fermentation: Watch and notice when the vigorous phase of primary fermentation is complete, which is typically indicated by a significant decrease in airlock activity or specific gravity readings that are close to the target final gravity.Gravity Readings: Use a hydrometer or refractometer to take consecutive gravity readings over a few days. When readings are consistent, it suggests that fermentation has slowed down enough for secondary transfer.Visual Clues: Look for a drop in the level of visible activity, such as the reduction of bubbles and the beginning of sediment formation at the bottom of the primary fermenter.Taste Test: Conduct a taste test for residual sweetness. If the cider is too sweet, it may need more time in primary fermentation unless the desired style of cider is sweet rather than dry.Timeframe Guidance: Generally, primary fermentation can take anywhere from a few days to two weeks, depending on factors like temperature, yeast strain, and original sugar content.Avoiding Off-Flavors: Transfer before the cider has sat too long on the lees at the bottom of the carboy to prevent off-flavors that can result from yeast autolysis.Specific Style Goals: Factor in the specific goals for the cider's style, as some styles may benefit from a longer or shorter primary fermentation before secondary.Equipment Availability: Ensure that the secondary fermentation vessel is prepared and sanitized before deciding on the transfer to avoid any delays once the cider is ready. Common Problems during Secondary Ferment Stalled Fermentation – Adjust ...
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    46 mins
  • 475: At the UK's National Perry Pear Centre and the Story Behind 99PINES

    475: At the UK's National Perry Pear Centre and the Story Behind 99PINES
    Oct 29 2025
    Perry making has deep roots in Gloucestershire, stretching back to the 17th century when French wine imports were cut off during the Napoleonic Wars. Local farmers turned to their own fruit, and the rich soils around Hartpury proved ideal for growing Perry pears. This episode features audio snapshots from the 2025 Totally Cider Tour stop at the National Perry Pear Centre. Our guide, Phil Kester, volunteers with 99PINES , where he helps preserve the region's rare Perry pear varieties. Phil's passion for Perry and deep local knowledge made this visit one of the tour's highlights. The Roots of the National Perry Pear Centre Charles Martell recognized that Perry orchards across Gloucestershire were disappearing and began documenting rare varieties.His work led to the first National Perry Collection at the Malvern Three Counties Showground, planted with Tom Oliver and others.Jim Chapman later expanded the effort by gifting land at Hartpury. This site is The National Perry Pear Centre and is home to over 100 Perry pear varieties from Gloucestershire and beyond.These orchards safeguard living history, connecting generations through the craft of Perry making. The 99PINES Project The name 99PINES comes from the line of pines atop nearby May Hill, often called the heart of English Perry country. Phil Kester of 99PINESS Phil and the volunteers at 99PINES are working to: Create a local hub to promote Perry culture in pubs and communities.Build a tasting space featuring 80–100 Perry varieties for education and enjoyment.Keep the project sustainable by reinvesting proceeds into orchard care and heritage initiatives. The Art and Challenge of Perry Making Perry is both art and patience. The fruit can rot within days, demanding precise timing at harvest.Perry ferments differently from cider and is more sensitive to bacteria.Varieties like Blakeney Red and Hartpury Green reveal a range of tannins and textures unique to Perry.Phil experiments with bottle conditioning and Pet Nat methods, showing how diverse and expressive Perry can be. Contact info for National Perry Pear Centre and 99PINES National Perry Pear Centre Website: https://www.nationalperrypearcentre.org.uk/ 99PINES Website: https://www.nationalperrypearcentre.org.uk/99pines-perry/ Mentions in this Cider Chat April 27-May3rd 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour to the United KingdomEdulis Restaurant – Toronto Cider House LuncheonsNY Cider Fest November 15, 2026
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    44 mins
  • 474: The Romance of It All | The Temperleys of Somerset Cider & Brandy

    474: The Romance of It All | The Temperleys of Somerset Cider & Brandy
    Oct 22 2025

    At the base of Burrow Hill life moves at the pace of apples and oak. Here, Julian and daughter Matilda Temperley are testment to the value of family for carry a business such as cider and brandy forward into the next 100 years.


    "You have to believe in the Romance of it because you are thinking so far in advance" Matilda Temperly

    From orchards planted for future generations to brandy resting quietly in barrels for decades, the Temperleys embody what it means to think in centuries, not seasons.

    The Cider: Tradition and Terroir

    The mount at Burrow Hill is memorialized in ongoing instagram posts because it provides a magnificent centerpiece of endurance and beauty due to its simplicity of a lone a large sycamore tree, which has become a local landmark and symbol of the Somerset landscape.

    Julian Temperly began planting cider apples trees here over 50 years ago. Today there are acres of orchards in different pockets surrounding Burrow Hill. A notable 75 acre orchard that was purchased from the Showering family years ago now, is touted to be the largest standard cider apple orchard in the world.

    Here you find the classic Burrow Hill cider as a tannic, full-bodied, and balanced drink. The bottle-fermented Kingston Black and Stoke Red ciders are great for hang time with friends or fine dining. Every cider reflects its orchard origin, emphasizing flavor, heritage, and authenticity.

    Distilling Somerset's Spirit

    In 1989, Somerset Cider Brandy became the first licensed distiller of apple brandy in the UK since the 19th century. And they have been awarded Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) status. This status guarantees that the brandy is produced in a consistent and traditional manner within Somerset. Using unique Gazagne stills, which are continuous stills of French design, the Temperleys now have lovely range of offerings from Eau de Vie to 20-year-aged Somerset Cider Brandy. Their Pomona, is a blend of apple juice and brandy, celebrates Somerset roots.

    Looking Ahead

    The Temperly's 100-year plan focuses on replanting traditional orchards, cultivating local oak for future barrels, and sustaining multi-generational stewardship. The goal: to ensure that Burrow Hill remains a place where apples, family, and time converge into something extraordinary.

    Matilda Temperley in the Tasting Room at Somerset Cider & Brandy

    Contact info for Somerset Cider and Brandy at Burrow Hill

    • Website: https://www.somersetciderbrandy.com

    Mentions in this Cider Chat

    • 432: Ancha Gergely's Abaliget Garden Projects | Hungarian Cider Maker
    • 431: Domaine Johanna Cécillon's Elegant Ciders | Brittany FR
    • Totally Cider Tours -
      • UK Cider Tour April 27th - May 3rd, 2026
      • French Cider Tour September 20th - 26th, 2026
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    1 hr and 10 mins
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