Helen and Dave Edwards are co-founders of the Artificiality Institute, a nonprofit research organization that helps people stay human in the age of AI. They explore how AI changes the way we think, who we become, and what it means to be human. Through story-based research, education, and community, they help people choose the relationship they want with machines, so they remain the authors of their own minds.

Before founding the Artificiality Institute, they co-founded Intelligentsia.ai, an AI-focused research firm acquired by Atlantic Media. Helen previously led large-scale technology and transformation efforts in critical infrastructure, while Dave spent years shaping creative tools at Apple and investing in emerging technologies as a venture capitalist at CRV and an equity research analyst at Morgan Stanley and ThinkEquity.

In this second part of our conversation, we talk about:

1. Rethinking intelligence as something layered, embodied, and expressed in different forms
2. The “SaaSpocalypse” moment on Wall Street
3. The “Dust Bowl” metaphor and the risk of automating complex human systems too quickly
4. Transition from the attention economy to the intimacy economy
5. Dave and Helen’s reflections on what is lost when we use AI
6. How AI systems uncover hidden structures in language, science, and the natural world
7. Practical ways creators can decide where AI belongs in their creative process

To learn more about Helen and Dave’s work, you can find them at:

https://artificialityinstitute.org/

Books and resources mentioned:

The Artificiality, AI Culture, and Why the Future Will Be Co-Evolution (by Helen Edwards)

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show

Helen and Dave Edwards are co-founders of the Artificiality Institute, a nonprofit research organization that helps people stay human in the age of AI. They explore how AI changes the way we think, who we become, and what it means to be human. Through story-based research, education, and community, they help people choose the relationship they want with machines, so they remain the authors of their own minds.

Before founding the Artificiality Institute, they co-founded Intelligentsia.ai, an AI-focused research firm acquired by Atlantic Media. Helen previously led large-scale technology and transformation efforts in critical infrastructure, while Dave spent years shaping creative tools at Apple and investing in emerging technologies as a venture capitalist at CRV and an equity research analyst at Morgan Stanley and ThinkEquity.

In this first part of our conversation, we discuss:

1. Helen and Dave's early childhood experiences of beauty
2. The origin of the Artificiality Institute
3. How AI is already reshaping the way we reason, write, create, and make decisions
4. What happens to human reasoning and decision-making when AI becomes part of our thinking process
5. The difference between “drift” and intentional authorship when working with AI
6. Cognitive sovereignty as the central challenge of the AI era
7. How can people use AI deeply and skillfully
8. The concept of symbolic plasticity and how AI can reshape the frameworks we use to understand the world

To learn more about Helen and Dave’s work, you can find them at:

https://artificialityinstitute.org/

Books and resources mentioned:

The Artificiality, AI Culture, and Why the Future Will Be Co-Evolution (by Helen Edwards)

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show

Dr. Marco Ventura is Professor of Law and Religion and Religious Diplomacy at the University of Siena in Italy. Trained in bioethics and biolaw at the University of Strasbourg, he has advised the European Parliament, the OSCE, and various governments on the intersection of religion and rights. He directed the Center for Religious Studies at the Fondazione Bruno Kessler in Trento and chairs the G20 Interfaith Working Group on Religion, Innovation, and Technology and Infrastructures.

Marco is the author of numerous books, including From Your Gods to Our Gods and Nelle mani di Dio, la super religione del mondo che verrà. Over the past decade, he has helped shape the emerging field exploring the encounter between religion and innovation.

In this episode, we explore Marco's work on bioethics and technoscience, their influential position paper mapping out this emerging field of religion and innovation, and what innovation really means in a religious context.

In this second part of our conversation, we talk about:

1. The language of innovation

2. How do religious communities decide what kind of change is desirable?

3. Innovation, markets, and technology as rival meaning systems

4. Resistance movements as responses to innovation

5. Politicization and polarization in debates about markets and capitalism

To learn more about Marco’s work, you can find him at:

• https://credo.unisi.it/about/secretariat-and-experts/person/marco

Links Mentioned:

• Religion, Innovation, Position paper, FBK 2019 - https://isr.fbk.eu/en/about-us/position-paper/
• Fondazione Bruno Kessler – https://www.fbk.eu/
• G20 Interfaith Forum – https://www.g20interfaith.org/
• Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) – https://www.osce.org/

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show

Dr. Marco Ventura is Professor of Law and Religion and Religious Diplomacy at the University of Siena in Italy. Trained in bioethics and biolaw at the University of Strasbourg, he has advised the European Parliament, the OSCE, and various governments on the intersection of religion and rights. He directed the Center for Religious Studies at the Fondazione Bruno Kessler in Trento and chairs the G20 Interfaith Working Group on Religion, Innovation, and Technology and Infrastructures.

Marco is the author of numerous books, including From Your Gods to Our Gods and Nelle mani di Dio, la super religione del mondo che verrà. Over the past decade, he has helped shape the emerging field exploring the encounter between religion and innovation.

In this episode, we explore Marco's work on bioethics and technoscience, their influential position paper mapping out this emerging field of religion and innovation, and what innovation really means in a religious context.

In this first part of our conversation, we discuss:

1. The balance between tradition and contemporary art
2. The story of St. Francis and “repair my church” as a metaphor for renewal
3. Catholic Church’s response to reproductive technologies
4. Why “innovation” was chosen instead of simply “technology.”
5. Distinction between technological innovation and social innovation
6. Two categories of innovation
7. Why religious actors want a voice in innovation-driven global agendas
8. The use of innovation in a religious context

To learn more about Marco’s work, you can find him at:

• https://credo.unisi.it/about/secretariat-and-experts/person/marco

Links Mentioned:

• Religion, Innovation, Position paper, FBK 2019 - https://isr.fbk.eu/en/about-us/position-paper/
• Fondazione Bruno Kessler – https://www.fbk.eu/
• G20 Interfaith Forum – https://www.g20interfaith.org/
• Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) – https://www.osce.org/

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show

Dr. Allison Pugh is Professor of Sociology at Johns Hopkins University and author of The Last Human Job, winner of the 2025 Best Book Award from the American Sociological Association. Her work examines how automation, efficiency, and quantification reshape work that relies on presence, dignity, and visibility. She introduces the concept of connective labor—the mutual, human work of recognizing another person and reflecting that understanding to them.

Louis Kim is a former Vice President at Hewlett-Packard, where he led teams in developing AI-enabled technologies for healthcare and other industries. After decades in corporate leadership, he is now pursuing a Master of Divinity at Duke Divinity School, focusing on hospice and palliative care. Alongside his theological training, Louis participates in Vatican-sponsored conversations on principled AI in healthcare, exploring where technology can assist care and where it must not replace human presence.

In this second part of our conversation, we talk about:

1. Why calling AI “inevitable” can obscure human agency and choice
2. The rapid adoption of AI scribes in medicine
3. Two aspects of the inevitability of AI
4. AI and ethical dilemmas in healthcare ethics
5. The limits of “better than nothing” as a moral framework for AI
6. The painful beauty of unpredictability in human relationships
7. Shame, vulnerability, and why AI feels easier than people
8. The risk of bypassing growth through technological shortcuts
9. Safeguarding dignity and belonging for the future of work

• To learn more about Allison’s work, you can find her at: https://www.allisonpugh.com/
• To learn more about Louis’s work, you can find him at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisjkim/
• Books and Resources Mentioned: The Last Human Job: The Work of Connecting in a Disconnected World (by Allison Pugh)

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show

Dr. Allison Pugh is Professor of Sociology at Johns Hopkins University and author of The Last Human Job, winner of the 2025 Best Book Award from the American Sociological Association. Her work examines how automation, efficiency, and quantification reshape work that relies on presence, dignity, and visibility. She introduces the concept of connective labor—the mutual, human work of recognizing another person and reflecting that understanding to them.

Louis Kim is a former Vice President at Hewlett-Packard, where he led teams in developing AI-enabled technologies for healthcare and other industries. After decades in corporate leadership, he is now pursuing a Master of Divinity at Duke Divinity School, focusing on hospice and palliative care. Alongside his theological training, Louis participates in Vatican-sponsored conversations on principled AI in healthcare, exploring where technology can assist care and where it must not replace human presence.

In this first part of our conversation, we discuss:

1. What in-depth interviewing reveals about being truly seen
2. How experiences of death shape our understanding of accompaniment
3. The difference between emotional labor and connective labor
4. How automation and standardization threaten dignity and belonging
5. Why institutions rely on checklists, data, and control
6. The factors driving institutional challenges to connective labor
7. Why human connection is defined by unpredictability
8. The role of moral formation in resisting depersonalization

• To learn more about Allison’s work, you can find her at: https://www.allisonpugh.com/
• To learn more about Louis’s work, you can find him at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisjkim/
• Books and Resources Mentioned: The Last Human Job: The Work of Connecting in a Disconnected World (by Allison Pugh)

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show

What does innovation look like in the field of spiritual care, when fewer people belong to congregations, yet more people still need meaning, accompaniment, and spiritual support? My two guests today have been researching this question extensively.

Wendy Cadge is President of Bryn Mawr College and a nationally renowned sociologist of religion and spirituality. She is the founder of the Chaplaincy Innovation Lab, which brings together chaplains, educators, and social scientists to study and support spiritual care across public institutions and community settings. Her work focuses on religious diversity, spirituality, and the role of chaplaincy in contemporary society.

Michael Skaggs is Director of Programs and Co-Founder of the Chaplaincy Innovation Lab. A historian of American religion based at the University of Notre Dame, his research explores interfaith dialogue, maritime and port chaplaincy, American Catholicism, and emerging models of spiritual care. He oversees education, professional development, and public-facing initiatives for the Lab.

In this second part of our conversation, we talk about:

1. The biggest challenges facing chaplaincy and spiritual care today
2. Business models and sustainability in spiritual care work
3. Barriers faced by spiritual care providers from minority faith traditions
4. What the “spiritual infrastructure of the future” really means
5. How congregational closures are reshaping where people find meaning and care
6. The promises and dangers of AI in spiritual care

To learn more about Wendy and Michael’s work, you can find them at:

• Wendy Cadge: https://www.brynmawr.edu/inside/people/wendy-cadge
• Michael Skaggs: https://chaplaincyinnovation.org/team/michael-skaggs-phd

Links Mentioned:

• Chaplaincy Innovation Lab – https://chaplaincyinnovation.org/
• Templeton Religion Trust – https://templetonreligiontrust.org/

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show

What does innovation look like in the field of spiritual care, when fewer people belong to congregations, yet more people still need meaning, accompaniment, and spiritual support? My two guests today have been researching this question extensively.

Wendy Cadge is President of Bryn Mawr College and a nationally renowned sociologist of religion and spirituality. She is the founder of the Chaplaincy Innovation Lab, which brings together chaplains, educators, and social scientists to study and support spiritual care across public institutions and community settings. Her work focuses on religious diversity, spirituality, and the role of chaplaincy in contemporary society.

Michael Skaggs is Director of Programs and Co-Founder of the Chaplaincy Innovation Lab. A historian of American religion based at the University of Notre Dame, his research explores interfaith dialogue, maritime and port chaplaincy, American Catholicism, and emerging models of spiritual care. He oversees education, professional development, and public-facing initiatives for the Lab.

In this first part of our conversation, we discuss:

1. The origins and mission of the Chaplaincy Innovation Lab
2. Traditional and emerging models of chaplaincy and spiritual care
3. The blurry boundaries of chaplaincy
4. Real applied value of good social, scientific, and historical research
5. Public perceptions of chaplains versus how chaplains describe their work
6. Chaplaincy as religious leadership in the future
7. The role of chaplains in addressing loneliness and isolation
8. Spiritual care beyond formal religion
9. Community-based and workplace chaplaincy models

To learn more about Wendy and Michael’s work, you can find them at:

• Wendy Cadge: https://www.brynmawr.edu/inside/people/wendy-cadge
• Michael Skaggs: https://chaplaincyinnovation.org/team/michael-skaggs-phd

Links Mentioned:

• Chaplaincy Innovation Lab – https://chaplaincyinnovation.org/
• Templeton Religion Trust – https://templetonreligiontrust.org/

This season of the podcast is sponsored by Templeton Religion Trust.

Support the show