What does the raucous laughter of Nicki Minaj and Billy Graham have to do with 14th century saint?

Find out in PART TWO of our MOST requested episodes ever -- diving deep into the question "Who is Saint Julian of Norwich???" Author of Revelations of Divine Love, coiner of the phrase "All Shall Be Well," and delighter in God's delight, St. Julian is such a powerful visionary and leader we needed two episodes to do her justice.

We're joined again by the The Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall, one of Lizzie's professors from her time at Duke Divinity School.

In part two, we explore "Christ as our true mother," the nature of the devil, and we see how Julian has echoes for us to consider in today's religious landscape. We also get a little teaser for Dr. Hall's new book, out in May 2026, called ERECTING THE PULPIT: MUSCULAR CHRISTIANITY FROM TEDDY ROOSEVELT TO DONALD TRUMP.

Amy Laura Hall is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies at Duke University, where she has taught since 1999. She is the author of four books, including Conceiving Parenthood: American Protestantism and the Spirit of Reproduction (2007) and Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich (2018). A noted authority on Christianity and culture in the U.S., Hall has also contributed provocative essays on Protestantism and politics to Religion Dispatches and Religion News Service.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich trans. by Elizabeth Spearing https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/261039/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich-translated-by-elizabeth-spearing-introduction-and-notes-by-a-c-spearing/

Julian of Norwich and the Mystical Body Politic of Christ By Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt --https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268022082/julian-of-norwich/

The Writings of Julian of Norwich A Vision Showed to a Devout Woman and A Revelation of Love Edited by Nicholas Watson and Jacqueline Jenkins -- https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02547-6.html?srsltid=AfmBOoopOJOEaY69eupR8Rx1uxzSJyVJpaSpLJKpJoHSPKAQ9ry8HPJY

Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall's works:

FORTHCOMING: Erecting the Pulpit: Muscular Christianity from Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/erecting-the-pulpit-9798216383475/

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

https://arcmag.org/home-movies-for-holy-week/

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

What does Rage Against the Machine and motherly images of God have to do with a 14th century saint?

Turns out ... a LOT. We are (finally) doing one of the MOST requested episodes ever -- diving deep into the question "Who is Saint Julian of Norwich???" And in order to dive into this saint whose revelatory witness of radical love, the wounds of Christ, and laughing at the nothingness of the devil, we have called in an expert: The Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall, one of Lizzie's professors from her time at Duke Divinity School.

This conversation was so rich that we had to split into two parts, so join us this week for PART ONE where we get a lay of the land of 14th century England, the bubonic plague, feudalism and its violence, and in this despairing time how Saint Julian received an incandescent vision of Christ's love for the whole world.

Amy Laura Hall is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies at Duke University, where she has taught since 1999. She is the author of four books, including Conceiving Parenthood: American Protestantism and the Spirit of Reproduction (2007) and Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich (2018). A noted authority on Christianity and culture in the U.S., Hall has also contributed provocative essays on Protestantism and politics to Religion Dispatches and Religion News Service.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich trans. by Elizabeth Spearing https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/261039/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich-translated-by-elizabeth-spearing-introduction-and-notes-by-a-c-spearing/

Julian of Norwich and the Mystical Body Politic of Christ By Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt --https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268022082/julian-of-norwich/

The Writings of Julian of Norwich A Vision Showed to a Devout Woman and A Revelation of Love Edited by Nicholas Watson and Jacqueline Jenkins -- https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02547-6.html?srsltid=AfmBOoopOJOEaY69eupR8Rx1uxzSJyVJpaSpLJKpJoHSPKAQ9ry8HPJY

Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall's works:

FORTHCOMING: Erecting the Pulpit: Muscular Christianity from Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/erecting-the-pulpit-9798216383475/

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

https://arcmag.org/home-movies-for-holy-week/

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

The sermon may (or may not) be your favorite part of the service, but did you know not all Christian services have a sermon? And there are as many definitions of what a sermon "is" as there are preachers. So we dive into what a sermon is in the most basic terms, and then get into what a sermon is for us, and what we think makes the best kind of sermon.

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh, PA

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

Easter is proclaimed in the Easter Vigil with a famous chant called "The Exsultet," and while we have lots of other famous chants and proclamations, this one is really special and has a wild backstory. So for Eastertide this year, we're excited to welcome Mother Laura back from her maternity leave and dive right into this liturgical, theological, and social history! Special thanks to The Rev. Kira Austin-Young who so expertly chanted the Exsultet for us!

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh, PA

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

Lent begins with the story of Jesus being tempted in the wilderness by Satan. But ... what is temptation? As we come to the end of our 40 days of Lent now in Holy Week, we take a moment to truly ask of God and ourselves what temptation is, and is not. Join friend of Rev. Lizzie and the pod, The Rev. Angela Tyler-Williams.

We're excited to welcome Rev. Laura back from maternity leave next month! Please pray for her continued rest and recovery in the meantime :)

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh, PA

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

Cover art today is a sketch by Rembrandt of the Temptation of Christ.

The Samaritan Woman, also called The Woman at the Well, appears in John 4 in a long discourse with Jesus under the noonday sun. She famously has had many husbands and is currently "with" a man who is "not her husband," and yet ... she is also a pivotal evangelist, preacher, and leader for the early Jesus movement. We heard her story in Lent 3, Year A, so we're taking a moment dive deeper into this text and what it might to say to us who are reclaiming our Christian faith for modern Christian life. Join friend of Rev. Lizzie and the pod, The Rev. Angela Tyler-Williams!.

We're excited to welcome Rev. Laura back from maternity leave next month! Please pray for her continued rest and recovery in the meantime :)

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh, PA

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

Cover art for this episode from Wikimedia commons, Carl Heinrich Bloch - Woman at the Well.

Saint Brigid of Kildare is steeped in myth to people of Christian and Pagan faith, and she's one of the three patron saints of Ireland. Known for being an abbess who led orders of men and women; a nun who celebrated the Mass; a woman who shared a bed with her "anam cara" or "soulmate," fellow nun Darlughdach; for making a pregnancy miraculously disappear; and, bamboozingly, for being the patron saint of computers ... there's a lot to unpack about this fiery lady. Join friend of Rev. Lizzie and the pod, The Rev. Angela Tyler-Williams, for a spirited conversation about saints, who tells the sacred stories of our faith, and why this Irish goddess-slash-saint still has good news for us in the liminal spaces today.

We're excited to welcome Rev. Laura back from maternity leave next month! Please pray for her continued rest and recovery in the meantime :)

More on Saint Brigid:

• Sacred Earth, Sacred Soul - John Philip Newell - https://materialmedia.com/product/sacred-earth-sacred-soul/
• Catholics for Choice - St. Brigid prayer card - https://www.catholicsforchoice.org/resource-library/prayer-cards-st-hildegard-and-st-brigid/
• https://www.cta-usa.org/perspectives/st-brigid-of-kildare-patroness-of-reproductive-justice
• Britannica - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Brigit-of-Ireland
• https://www.asn.org.uk/st-brigid-of-kildare-patron-saint-and-irelands-first-abortionist/

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh, PA

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

For part 12 of 12 on “What is the Nicene Creed?” we unpack these lines:

"We look for the resurrection of the dead,

and the life of the world to come.

Amen."

**cues up "The Final Countdown" by Europe**

So... what is the world to come? What does it have to do with the resurrection of the dead?

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh, PA

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!