What does the raucous laughter of Nicki Minaj and Billy Graham have to do with 14th century saint?

Find out in PART TWO of our MOST requested episodes ever -- diving deep into the question "Who is Saint Julian of Norwich???" Author of Revelations of Divine Love, coiner of the phrase "All Shall Be Well," and delighter in God's delight, St. Julian is such a powerful visionary and leader we needed two episodes to do her justice.

We're joined again by the The Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall, one of Lizzie's professors from her time at Duke Divinity School.

In part two, we explore "Christ as our true mother," the nature of the devil, and we see how Julian has echoes for us to consider in today's religious landscape. We also get a little teaser for Dr. Hall's new book, out in May 2026, called ERECTING THE PULPIT: MUSCULAR CHRISTIANITY FROM TEDDY ROOSEVELT TO DONALD TRUMP.

Amy Laura Hall is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies at Duke University, where she has taught since 1999. She is the author of four books, including Conceiving Parenthood: American Protestantism and the Spirit of Reproduction (2007) and Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich (2018). A noted authority on Christianity and culture in the U.S., Hall has also contributed provocative essays on Protestantism and politics to Religion Dispatches and Religion News Service.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich trans. by Elizabeth Spearing https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/261039/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich-translated-by-elizabeth-spearing-introduction-and-notes-by-a-c-spearing/

Julian of Norwich and the Mystical Body Politic of Christ By Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt --https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268022082/julian-of-norwich/

The Writings of Julian of Norwich A Vision Showed to a Devout Woman and A Revelation of Love Edited by Nicholas Watson and Jacqueline Jenkins -- https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02547-6.html?srsltid=AfmBOoopOJOEaY69eupR8Rx1uxzSJyVJpaSpLJKpJoHSPKAQ9ry8HPJY

Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall's works:

FORTHCOMING: Erecting the Pulpit: Muscular Christianity from Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/erecting-the-pulpit-9798216383475/

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

https://arcmag.org/home-movies-for-holy-week/

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Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

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Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

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MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

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More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

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More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

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Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

What does Rage Against the Machine and motherly images of God have to do with a 14th century saint?

Turns out ... a LOT. We are (finally) doing one of the MOST requested episodes ever -- diving deep into the question "Who is Saint Julian of Norwich???" And in order to dive into this saint whose revelatory witness of radical love, the wounds of Christ, and laughing at the nothingness of the devil, we have called in an expert: The Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall, one of Lizzie's professors from her time at Duke Divinity School.

This conversation was so rich that we had to split into two parts, so join us this week for PART ONE where we get a lay of the land of 14th century England, the bubonic plague, feudalism and its violence, and in this despairing time how Saint Julian received an incandescent vision of Christ's love for the whole world.

Amy Laura Hall is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies at Duke University, where she has taught since 1999. She is the author of four books, including Conceiving Parenthood: American Protestantism and the Spirit of Reproduction (2007) and Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich (2018). A noted authority on Christianity and culture in the U.S., Hall has also contributed provocative essays on Protestantism and politics to Religion Dispatches and Religion News Service.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich trans. by Elizabeth Spearing https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/261039/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich-translated-by-elizabeth-spearing-introduction-and-notes-by-a-c-spearing/

Julian of Norwich and the Mystical Body Politic of Christ By Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt --https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268022082/julian-of-norwich/

The Writings of Julian of Norwich A Vision Showed to a Devout Woman and A Revelation of Love Edited by Nicholas Watson and Jacqueline Jenkins -- https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02547-6.html?srsltid=AfmBOoopOJOEaY69eupR8Rx1uxzSJyVJpaSpLJKpJoHSPKAQ9ry8HPJY

Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall's works:

FORTHCOMING: Erecting the Pulpit: Muscular Christianity from Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/erecting-the-pulpit-9798216383475/

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

https://arcmag.org/home-movies-for-holy-week/

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!

The sermon may (or may not) be your favorite part of the service, but did you know not all Christian services have a sermon? And there are as many definitions of what a sermon "is" as there are preachers. So we dive into what a sermon is in the most basic terms, and then get into what a sermon is for us, and what we think makes the best kind of sermon.

+++

Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.

SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast

There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons!

+++

Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/

++++

MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/

++++

More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org

++++

More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh, PA

++++

Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!