BONUS EPISODE

The themes of the podcast were picked up by members of the Senedd’s Public Accounts Committee and put to the Permanent Secretary of the Welsh Government to respond.

Here’s the unfiltered exchange.

They say that “Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made”.

This messy process is one of headaches Welsh Government Ministers face on the Fifth Floor of Ty Hywel . And this episode exposes it to public scrutiny for the first time.

Lee Waters speaks with fellow former Ministers, advisers, and civil servants to survey the main frustrations faced by those working inside the Welsh Government in getting things done.

The documentary podcast series has previously considered the range of Ministerial responsibilities, the pace of the civil service in delivering change, the relationship with local government, the weakness of scrutiny, and the management of political pressures.

The full set of interviews drawn on by this series have been published by Cardiff University :

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf

Welsh Government Ministers only have an office on The Fifth Floor with the support of their backbench colleagues on the second floor, and with enough votes in the finely balanced Senedd.

This episode looks at the art and science of politics that Ministers need to confront to get things done.

Former Government Minister Lee Waters talks to former colleagues about the pressures faced inside Government.

The full set of interviews drawn on by this series have been published by Cardiff University :

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/2888677/Cathays-Conversations-Lee-Waters-2025-01-14.pdf