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We Thought It Would Be Easy

We Thought It Would Be Easy

By: Jordan Weisman & Jonathan Grant
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About this listen

It’s all fun and games until someone loses an eye ... or millions of dollars. This podcast drags mad geniuses and bold creators from every corner of interactive entertainment out of their comfort zones to answer the question, 'What the f**k were you thinking?' Expect brutally honest stories, creative courage under fire, and practical insights that’ll inspire (or warn) anyone daring enough to chase magic.© We Thought It Would Be Easy Pod Science Fiction
Episodes
  • Ed Fries: The Father of the Xbox is Really a Hacker at Heart
    Aug 14 2025

    Ed Fries joins hosts Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to show how a teenage arcade hacker became the exec who helped turn Microsoft into a gaming powerhouse. Curiosity first, constraints as fuel, and a ruthless respect for shipping, that hacker ethos still drives how he works & builds things today.

    Check out Ed's venture fund 1Up Ventures - where he's building a community of the most talented, experienced, and creative independent game developers in the world.
    https://1upfund.com/

    Don't forget to check out the IDGA, he world’s largest nonprofit membership organization supporting the people who make games.
    https://igda.org/

    Quick reference mentioned by Ed:

    • Amir Satvat’s “Dear parent” letter: A frank, supportive overview for families weighing game careers, with realistic odds and next steps.
    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_dear-parent-of-a-college-high-school-or-activity-7316429901132165125-vFYb/

    • Amir Satvat’s “Harsh truth about game degrees”: Data on employability by role, what to study, and practical alternatives.
    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/amirsatvat_the-harsh-truth-about-game-degrees-too-many-activity-7324100230067453952-YaW2/

    00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Ed Fries
    07:13 Early Hacker Days
    17:37 Excel's "Sindogs" Bug
    25:07 Joining Microsoft's Games Group
    29:00 Navigating Corporate Politics
    36:28 Xbox Origins & Brand Battles
    46:39 Building Game Portfolios
    59:52 Post-Microsoft & Family Focus
    01:05:48 Passion vs. Profit in Gaming
    01:15:22 1Up Ventures & New Bets
    01:21:23 Advice for Young Creators
    01:27:52 Regrets & The Fickle Nature of Pitches
    01:34:57 Closing & What's Next

    Follow us on Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod

    Follow us on X:
    https://www.x.com/wethoughtpod

    Follow us on LinkedIn:
    https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 38 mins
  • Daniel Dociu: From Guild Wars to The Expanse, Making Art That Serves Story First
    Jul 31 2025

    Art Director & visual powerhouse Daniel Dociu joins Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant to torch “style bibles,” praise imperfections, and argue that art should grow like aged cheese - slow, organic, story-first. He recalls sketching Crimson Skies, turning Guild Wars into a “playable painting,” and painting The Expanse covers with zero notes. The trio spar over rapid prototyping, AI’s coming shake-up, and how small, gutsy teams can still out-create lumbering megaprojects.

    Check out Daniel's INCREDIBLE ArtStation, where you can find many examples of his amazing work:
    https://www.artstation.com/daniel_dociu

    00:00 Jordan Weisman and Jonathan Grant welcome Daniel Dociu
    05:12 Daniel's Unique & Definitional Style
    07:27 Style Can't Be Frozen - It Must Be Grown
    12:31 Style Guides vs Real Creativity
    17:32 Conducting an Art “Orchestra” of Hundreds
    23:44 Becoming Distinctive by Accepting Imperfection
    32:22 Directing Art by Starting Conversations
    35:09 On Sequels & Sameness
    40:19 Navigating AI's Role in Creativity
    40:27 AI, First Chairs, and the Future's Smaller Teams
    45:56 Concentric Development: Prove Fun Before Polish
    49:41 Personalization vs. Localization in Gaming
    54:25 The Destructive Nature of the Approvals in Games
    01:08:08 Painting The Expanse: A No-Notes Approval Story

    Follow us on Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod

    Follow us on X:
    https://www.x.com/wethoughtpod

    Follow us on LinkedIn:
    https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 16 mins
  • Mitch Gitelman: On Building MechCommander, Shadowrun, Battletech - and Why Kindness Wins
    Jul 24 2025

    Mitch Gitelman: Building MechCommander, Shadowrun, Battletech - And Why Kindness Wins

    Game-making maestro Mitch Gitelman sits down with Jordan and Jonathan to spill the wild origin story of how “a kid who didn’t know what a pixel was” bluffed his way into Sony - and then built classics like MechCommander, Shadowrun Returns, and BattleTech. From goat-pasture negotiations and Microsoft war stories to why “improvise, adapt, overcome” (and a lot of kindness) still beat crunch and corporate ego, this episode all about creative hustle and staying human in AAA chaos.

    Check out SLICE - Seattle Loves Indie Creators Expo, is a one-day games industry conference that Mitch is helping out with:
    https://seattleslice.org/

    Follow us on Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/wethoughtpod

    Follow us on X:
    https://www.x.com/wethoughtpod

    Follow us on LinkedIn:
    https://www.linkedin.com/company/we-thought-it-would-be-easy

    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 26 mins
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