What kind of hope can actually sustain racial justice work over decades—not just months? In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer is joined by anthropologist and author Dr. Christine Jeske to talk about her new book, Racial Justice for the Long Haul: How White Christian Advocates Persevere and Why.

Christine explains how anthropological research actually works—long interviews, deep listening, and time spent in “ordinary” spaces—and how she used it to study white Christians commended by leaders of color as faithful, long-term advocates. From there, the conversation dives into:

• Delusional vs. resilient hope – why optimism that avoids suffering inevitably collapses, and how Christians can cultivate a cruciform hope forged in hardship.

• Incremental change without complacency – how to celebrate small wins without pretending the deeper injustices are solved.

• Privilege as undeserved gifts – not just a slogan, but a way of naming what we’ve received and how grace calls us to respond, not just feel guilty.

• Habitus and formation – how our environments, narratives, and “moving walkways” of culture quietly shape us toward either withdrawal or engagement.

• Perseverance in practice – from Sisyphus and his “muscles” to Beverly Daniel Tatum’s moving walkway, to concrete next steps for listeners who feel overwhelmed and don’t know where to begin.

If you’re a Christian who feels the weight of racial injustice but wrestles with burnout, defensiveness, or simply not knowing what to do next, this conversation offers a theologically rich, practical vision for persevering in hope—without denial, without despair, and with your eyes fixed on Christ.

You can purchase Racial Justice for the Long Haul at ivpress.com (use code IVPPOD20 for a 20% discount)

You can also read more from Christine Jeske at christinejeske.com.

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To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

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As technology offers us endless ways to be “present” without actually being there, what does it mean for Christians to imitate the incarnation of Christ? In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer explores the often-overlooked ethical and theological dimensions of the incarnation—not just that “the Word became flesh,” but how Jesus chose to be with us and for us.

Using The Matrix as a modern parable, James contrasts Christ’s self-giving descent with Cypher’s decision to abandon reality and his friends for the comfort of illusion—what James calls “dis-incarnation.” From there, he turns to Philippians 2 to show how Jesus refused to use equality with God for His own advantage, instead embodying a way of life marked by presence, sacrifice, and service.

James then examines how dominant ideas like liberalism and transhumanism can subtly train us to embody the world in self-determined, self-serving ways, even when they seem to promise freedom or enhancement. He argues that true Christian embodiment isn’t about maximizing personal options or overcoming our biology through technology, but about conforming our lives to the incarnate Christ—using our gifts, bodies, and opportunities not for our own advantage, but for the good of others. This episode will help you rethink Christmas, technology, and your everyday presence in light of the One who became flesh for us.

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To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

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Every two years, Ligonier Ministries and Lifeway Research release The State of Theology—a massive survey that reveals what Americans (including evangelicals) actually believe about God, the Bible, Jesus, and culture. The 2025 report is out, and some of the numbers are… surprising.

In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer is joined by longtime friend and theologian Dr. Ashish Varmafor a wide-ranging conversation about what the data shows—and what it doesn’t show—about the theological landscape among evangelicals today. Rather than panicking over headline-grabbing statistics, James and Ashish analyze the deeper trends beneath the numbers.

Together they explore:

• Why young evangelicals differ sharply from older generations on questions like the Bible’s literal truth and whether science conflicts with Scripture.

• Why nearly all evangelicals still say the Bible is their highest authority, even when their answers elsewhere seem to contradict that claim.

• How access to information, cultural context, and community shape belief—for better or worse.

• The surprising power of church attendance and affiliation in reinforcing core doctrines (and where that influence seems to break down).

• Why political theology may be quietly distorting how Christians answer moral questions—especially younger believers.

• Which troubling survey results actually matter—and which ones may simply reflect fuzzy categories or ambiguous wording.

• How churches should respond: not with panic or doctrinal hammering, but with thoughtful discipleship, richer community life, and deeper formation.

James and Ashish also dive into the complexities of interpreting theological surveys at all—how beliefs are shaped by cultural habitus, how people understand (or misunderstand) terms like myth, literal, or love, and why surveys often reveal more about our formation than our formal theology.

If you’re curious about what evangelicals really believe—and what the church can do about it—this episode offers a hopeful, nuanced, and deeply thoughtful guide through the data.

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🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: www.usefultogod.com

To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

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If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation!

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