How do we move beyond the "gatekeeping" of our institutions to practice a love that is truly transformative?

In this soul-stirring conversation, host Dwight Dunston is joined by Zae Illo and Lisa Graustein to explore the intersection of spiritual practice and radical justice. Together, they challenge us to look beyond "market logic" and historical comfort to find a faith that meets people exactly where they are—on the streets, in the struggle, and in the heart.

The episode grounds itself in the words of early Quakers Isaac Pennington, John Woolman, and Catherine Payton, using their 17th and 18th-century visions as a springboard to ask: What does it mean to "restore love to its right place" in a world of broken systems?

Zae Illo is a public theologian and street minister in San Francisco. His ministry focuses on the material and spiritual needs of the unhoused, bridging the gap between faith and the harsh realities of urban life. He is the author of Wild Deep Waters and a prophetic voice on the necessity of "transgressive" love—a love that flows outside the bounds of what society deems "normative."

Lisa Graustein is a lifelong Quaker, artist, and justice educator. Her work centers on healing, transformation, and dismantling white supremacy within spiritual and secular institutions. She brings a wealth of experience in mutual aid, peacebuilding, and "Afrofuturism," inviting us to imagine a future where resources are shared in common and every gate is opened.

They explore:

• Love as Transgression: Why following the spirit often requires us to break cultural norms and "market logic."
• The Myth of Private Property: A critical look at the "Diggers" vs. early Quakers and the radical call to hold all things in common.
• Institutional Gatekeeping: How our organizations (and meeting houses) inadvertently limit access to the "light" and how to dismantle those barriers.
• Tools for Connection: Lisa’s "Great-Great-Grandchild" framework for finding common ground in a polarized world.
• The Ministry of the Streets: Why material assistance is a vehicle for hearing the testimonies of those the state deems "disposable."

Politics does not determine someone’s character or someone’s essence... What if we were curious as to why?" -Zae Illo

Hear "radical curiosity" and a call to live into the Kingdom of God as a present, breaking reality.

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
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The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

In this mini-episode of The Seed: Conversations for Radical Hope, we return to Season Three for a powerful moment from Dwight’s conversation with artist, facilitator, theologian, and mother Autumn Brown.

Autumn reflects on fugitivity, freedom, and what it means to step into lostness so that belonging can find us. She explores how community, agency, vulnerability, and mutual care shape the conditions where people can come home to themselves and to one another.

This excerpt comes from
Creating the Conditions for Belonging with Autumn Brown
Season 3, Episode 2
https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/2032871/13365431-creating-the-conditions-for-belonging-with-autumn-brown

Learn more about Autumn Brown

Website: https://www.iambrown.org/

Autumn Brown is an artist, facilitator, theologian, mother, and freedom worker. She is the front woman of the soul-pop band AUTUMN and the co-host of How to Survive the End of the World, the long-running podcast she creates with her sister, adrienne maree brown.

Autumn brings twenty years of experience in movement strategy, consensus process, and racial justice facilitation, and has worked with community-based organizations across the U.S. and internationally. She is a former facilitator with AORTA (Anti-Oppression Resource & Training Alliance) and previously served as Executive Director of RECLAIM!, supporting queer and trans youth in reclaiming their lives from oppression.

Autumn will also be the guest host of the Climate Changed podcast, a project of The BTS Center. Learn more at https://ClimateChangedPodcast.org

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
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The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

How do we speak truth in love—and stay grounded in care, courage, and connection while doing so?

In this powerful, heart-centered conversation, host Dwight Dunston is joined by two guests whose lives embody the practice of love as a healing force for justice: Inaara Neal-Shiraz and ,O. Together they explore what it means to balance bold truth-telling with tenderness, to hold anger and compassion in the same breath, and to become “alchemists” of our own emotions.

The episode begins with a passage from the Pendle Hill pamphlet Nonviolence on Trial by Robert W. Hillgas, which asks how we might name evil without losing sight of our shared humanity. From there, Dwight, Inaara, and ,O invite listeners into a living meditation on love—as practice, discipline, and transformation.

About Our Guests

,O is a longtime healer, educator, and community organizer working at the intersection of social and environmental justice. For more than 25 years, they have led workshops and healing circles that support individuals and groups in addressing the legacies of racism, sexism, homophobia, and class privilege. ,O serves as Healing Justice Coordinator at Philly Thrive, is a founding member of Alternatives to Gun Violence, and leads the Quaker ministry Love and Respect Transform, which explores the transformative power of love.

Inaara Neal-Shiraz (she/her) served as the Inclusion and Belonging Coordinator for Philadelphia Yearly Meeting, supporting 10,000 Friends across four states and nurturing communities of belonging among young adult Friends. She brings her background in education, the arts, and nonprofit work to her ministry of connection—helping Quaker spaces become more inclusive and life-giving for people of all identities and experiences.

Elder Wisdom

Throughout the episode, Inaara and ,O speak from different generations yet a shared spiritual lineage. They remind us that love is not sentimental—it is an ancient rhythm, an elder wisdom that lives in the heart. Love can be fierce, restorative, and revolutionary.

Dwight reflects:

“What if we weren’t afraid of love—to be seen, to be powerful, to let go of the king’s language and speak from the heart instead?”

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
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The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

In this special mini-episode of The Seed: Conversations for Radical Hope, host Dwight Dunston reconnects with guest Lisa Graustein to explore how art, love, and power intertwine in daily life. Together, they reflect on the creative process as an act of resistance, connection, and renewal.

Dwight shares his newest creative project—an emerging genre he calls “Anthropocene Hip-Hop,” a musical form that bridges the natural world, social justice, and lyrical artistry. “I’ve been a hip-hop artist for years,” Dwight says, “but this moment calls for music that recognizes our interconnectedness—with each other, the stars, and the earth itself.”

You will hear one of his original songs.

Lisa, a potter and educator, describes her recent community projects, including an art show inspired by Octavia Butler’s Parable of the Sower and a new installation called Night Lights, which uses ceramics to create vessels that radiate light through perforated clay forms. “To me,” Lisa reflects, “there’s something metaphorically powerful about a bowl with holes in it. That’s what love feels like—a container that holds, but with space for things to move through.”

Through their conversation, Dwight and Lisa consider how love and power, like light and clay, must move freely to remain alive. Lisa says, “If we actually saw every human being as our sibling, every social problem we have would disappear.” Dwight responds, “That’s our human family—to see each other as resource, as places to cultivate belonging and hope.”

Together, they remind us that recommitting to love—through creativity, justice, and everyday care—is itself a radical act.

Guest Bio
A lifelong Quaker, Lisa Graustein is a former middle and high school teacher who now works as a facilitator and trainer in diversity, equity, and inclusion. She has led Young Friends programs, worshiped with the full spectrum of Quakers, co-facilitated Quaker Coalition for Uprooting Racism cohorts, and helped start Three Rivers Meeting. An artist and solo mom, she lives on Neponset Band of the Massachusett land, colonially known as Boston. Lisa’s pottery and art can be found on Instagram at @LisaGraustein.

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
----
The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

What happens when sacred stories are used to justify oppression—and when telling the truth feels like rebellion?

In this episode of The Seed: Conversations for Radical Hope, host Dwight Dunston speaks with Sarah Ruden, an award-winning translator, essayist, and Quaker writer whose work exposes how language, power, and faith intersect. Known for her acclaimed translations of The Aeneid, The Gospels, The Confessions of Augustine, and Perpetua: The Woman, the Martyr, Ruden brings deep historical insight and moral clarity to this conversation about love, responsibility, and truth.

Drawing on the biblical story of Hagar and Ishmael, Sarah unpacks how ancient hierarchies still shape the present. She traces the lineage of propaganda around women’s bodies from Ovid’s Rome to today’s reproductive politics—and challenges the spiritual evasions that allow injustice to endure. She also draws on her forthcoming book, Reproductive Wrongs: A Short History of Bad Ideas About Women.

Key Quotes

“The silence of women in the Hebrew Bible is very interesting—very provocative to think about.”

“People, especially men, don’t want to take responsibility for what actually happens.”

“We have to start by telling the truth.”

Together, Dwight and Sarah explore what it means to live with integrity in a time of crisis, how Quaker faith can both guide and confuse, and why empirical truth—science, evidence, and witness—matters for spiritual survival.

🔗 Resources Mentioned

• Reproductive Wrongs: A Short History of Bad Ideas About Women – forthcoming from Knopf
• Perpetua: The Woman, the Martyr – Yale University Press
• The Face of Water: A Translator on Beauty and Meaning in the Bible – Vintage
• The story of Hagar and Ishmael (Genesis 16–21)
• Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., “When Peace Becomes Obnoxious” (1957) https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king-papers/documents/when-peace-becomes-obnoxious
• Grace Lee Boggs and “The Clock of the World” – The Harvard Crimson

Learn more about Sarah’s work at https://sarahruden.com/

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
----
The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

This mini episode of The Seed: Conversations for Radical Hope revisits our most downloaded conversation across six seasons, featuring visionary leader Niyonu Spann. Through excerpts from her full episode, Niyonu shares what it means to live with integrity—wholeness, surrender, and alignment with purpose. She reflects on the origins of her transformative workshop, Beyond Diversity 101, and offers listeners practical invitations to embody integrity in their daily lives.

About Niyonu Spann
Niyonu Spann is a facilitator, musician, and community leader with decades of experience in and beyond Quaker institutions. As Dean at Pendle Hill in the early 2000s, she created Beyond Diversity 101, a workshop that has transformed communities across the country. She is a prolific musician and founder of the performance group Tribe 1, which has carried songs of peace and justice throughout the U.S. and Nicaragua. Niyonu has also worked extensively with Chester Eastside Ministries in Chester, Pennsylvania.

Compelling Quotes from the Episode
“It is about wholeness. It is about remembering who we are.” —Niyonu Spann

“I didn’t even know I needed that song, but I knew I needed that song. Thank you for that gift.” —Dwight Dunston

Listen in for wisdom, music, and a reminder that integrity is the keynote frequency guiding us toward justice and belonging.

Follow Niyonu on Instagram @niyonus and LinkedIn.

👉 To hear the complete original conversation, visit:
https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/2032871/episodes/12356301-integrity-radical-truth-remembering-who-we-are-with-niyonu-spann

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
----
The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

In this first full episode of Season Six of The Seed: Conversations for Radical Hope, host Dwight Dunston speaks with Lisa Graustein, a lifelong Quaker, educator, DEI facilitator, artist, and solo mom.

Lisa reflects on the intersections of love, power, justice, and belonging. She shares stories of winding life paths, creating safer spaces, and the importance of daily recommitment to what matters most. Drawing on an Alice Walker quote about love activism, she reminds us that even in disorienting times, joy, truth, forgiveness, and care for the earth can ground us.

Together, Dwight and Lisa explore the challenges of uprooting racism, the role of art and community in sustaining hope, and how faith can guide us toward more fluid, interconnected ways of being.

Quotes from the episode

• Dwight: “Sometimes love actually means saying the hard things or showing up in a space even when it’s not easy.”
• Lisa: “Our faith at its core actively assumes there shouldn’t be norms… Listening to God and doing what God tells you to do today doesn’t mean we’re going to do the same thing all the time.”

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
----
The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

Season Six of The Seed: Conversations for Radical Hope begins with Francisco Burgos, Executive Director of Pendle Hill. Host Dwight Dunston and Francisco reflect on this season’s theme—love and power—inspired by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?

Dr. King wrote:
“Power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic. Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice, and justice at its best is power correcting everything that stands against love.”

In this wide-ranging conversation, they explore:

• What love requires of us in the face of injustice and despair.
• How power, when rooted in service, can become transformative.
• The resilience of community in times of crisis.
• The role of testimony and imagination in shaping a more just world.

Dwight and Francisco share personal updates, ground themselves in King’s words, and invite listeners to reflect on what social systems and testimonies we need today to build communities of dignity, justice, and hope.

📖 Featured Reading: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
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The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.