Got questions or comments? Text them to me!

My guest is Dustin Scott — husband, dad to a miracle five-year-old named Roman, and a leader who’s spent years walking with people through recovery. He’s from Tucson, Arizona, and recently shifted from working in addiction recovery to teaching theology—because, as he says, “recovery is spiritual formation.”

In this episode, Dustin and I talk about what it really means to let Jesus meet us in our mess instead of waiting to get our act together first. We dig into why slowing down to breathe—really breathe—isn’t some new-age trick, but a way to remember that God’s Spirit still fills our lungs like He did in Genesis 2.

We also talk about the tension leaders live in: bringing peace to others while fighting for it ourselves, holding joy and pain in the same hand, and realizing that fixing a problem isn’t the same as healing a soul.

Dustin shares the incredible story of his son Roman’s birth—a miracle that came after years of heartbreak—and how that experience reshaped his view of faith, leadership, and what it means to walk with a limp but still lead with love.

We end up where Philippians 2 points us: Jesus came close, so we can, too. Whether it’s addiction, anxiety, or just the everyday chaos of life, formation happens when we stay close enough to let Him shape us through it.

Connect with Dustin: Recovery Formation on Substack

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Thanks for listening to The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins! Find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and be sure to read the stuff I'm writing on my blog.

Rather watch the video? Head over to The Reluctant Leader Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Got questions or comments? Text them to me!

In this powerful and honest conversation, Paul sits down with Christa Cordova, a mental health educator and fellow doctoral student, to talk about something many believers quietly carry — spiritual hurt and church trauma.

Christa has walked the road herself, serving in both church and parachurch roles that left deep scars. Now, she uses her experience and training in Critical Incident Stress Management to help others heal, discern what they’ve experienced, and rebuild a healthy, whole faith.

Together, Paul and Christa unpack what spiritual abuse really means (and doesn’t mean), how to spot the difference between being hurt by church and being abused by church, and how pastors and leaders can cultivate safe, trauma-sensitive spaces that honor both truth and healing.

They also talk about:

• Why awareness and self-reflection are vital for healthy leadership
• The concept of the “bell sheep” — a beautiful image of spiritual leadership that follows the Shepherd closely
• The Japanese art of Kintsugi and how it pictures God’s work of turning brokenness into beauty
• How churches can take practical steps toward being places of refuge rather than harm
• The courage it takes to come back to church after being wounded

Christa offers tangible advice for pastors and church leaders, including the value of the 988 Crisis Hotline, why every church would benefit from having a trauma-trained leader, and how building a network of local therapists can transform pastoral care.

Whether you’re a pastor trying to lead with compassion, or someone still healing from spiritual wounds, this conversation will remind you that Jesus meets us in our scars — not in our perfection.

Resources Mentioned:

• A Church Called Tov by Scot McKnight & Laura Barringer
• When the Church Harms God’s People by Diane Langberg
• The Wounded Healer by Henri Nouwen
• National Crisis Hotline: 988

Connect with Christa:
👉 christacordova.com

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Thanks for listening to The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins! Find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and be sure to read the stuff I'm writing on my blog.

Rather watch the video? Head over to The Reluctant Leader Podcast on my YouTube channel.

Got questions or comments? Text them to me!

What do you do when the place that was supposed to heal you is the place that hurt you?

In this honest and hope-filled conversation, Paul sits down with Sarah Holstra – pastoral counselor and self-described “boundary coach” – to talk about the messy but holy work of relational repair.

They cover:

• What a “boundary coach” actually does (and why you probably need one)
• Why most church hurt is more about relationships than leadership
• How to walk with people who have been wounded by the church – without piling on shame
• The crucial gap between what we expect and what we experience – and how to fill it with trust instead of suspicion

This episode will encourage pastors, leaders, and anyone longing to re-engage with community after pain. Sarah reminds us that healing is possible, relational repair is holy work, and God is still writing better stories for us than the ones our pain has been telling.

Links & Resources:

• Sarah Halstra – Love Your Story Therapy
• Holy Hurt by Hillary McBride
• Connect with Sarah on Instagram: @emotionalsupportpastor
• SarahHolstra.com

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Thanks for listening to The Reluctant Leader Podcast with Paul Jenkins! Find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and be sure to read the stuff I'm writing on my blog.

Rather watch the video? Head over to The Reluctant Leader Podcast on my YouTube channel.