Episodes

  • Quackcast 747 - Novels
    Jul 8 2025

    Novels are basically long stories. They tend to have a lot of different plots and things all happening at once, unlike short stories. When writing a novel you have a lot of freedom to tell really BIG stories, stories that spanning worlds and centuries if you feel like it. In this Quackcast Banes chats to Tantz about the art of novel writing and what makes a novel

    Tantz is a good person to talk about that with since she's published a few novels in her fantasy Art of Veiling series. And Banes is a good person to ask about it because he's interested in writing a novel of his own!

    Have you ever had plans to write a novel? Do you prefer them over short stories or comics? How would YOU approach writing a novel of your own?

    This week Gunwallace was overwhelmed so as another best-off special treat we have a reprise of the theme to Ginger&Shadow - Lovely string music with the competing themes representing the two cats. From Quackcast 204, 3rd of February 2015.


    Topics and shownotes

    Links

    The Art of Veiling - https://www.amazon.com.au/Art-Veiling-Awareness-Tantz-Aerine-ebook/dp/B00CRMM25K

    Featured comic:
    kingdom of cats - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/jul/02/featured-comic-kingdom-of-cats/

    Featured music:
    Ginger&Shadow - http://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Ginger_and_Shadow/ - by Barry Corbett, Rated E.

    Special thanks to:
    Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/
    Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/
    Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean
    Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/


    VIDEO exclusive!
    Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks!
    - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck
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    1 hr and 1 min
  • Quackcast 746 - It's never too late
    Jul 1 2025
    There's always time to start learning something new! If you think you're bad at art and people told you you lacked talent back in the day and that if you didn't start as a child then you have no chance to be good, please know that all of that is false- you can become an amazing artist whenever you start. In-born magical “Talent” is absolutely not required! Practise is ALL you need. None of this “10,000 hours” bullsh*t either, that's another myth. Just keep working at it over and over and practising new things till you get the results you want. This cast was inspired by Gunwallace's newspost last week where he discusses this very thing. We go a bit deeper into the subject and Tantz lends her considerable academic and scientific weight as well as numerous anecdotes. It really is a persistent myth that you can only learn well as a child and then after that you may as well not even bother, but that's wrong for a lot of reasons. Like most myths it is based on grain of truth: children's brains are “empty” so they're predisposed to gather as much knowledge as fast as they can, copying from everything, so they can learn to survive and become functioning humans. Because of that they can seem to pick up the basics pretty fast. When you're an adult you don't have that need anymore so you pick things up slower. That's all it is, you can still learn at any age and in fact adults have the advantage: they're more dedicated to what they want to learn and they have the experience and intelligence to understand what they learn and make better use of it, so they can synthesise that knowledge, apply it to other things and sub in other knowledge and experience to augment their learning. In my own experience teaching digital animation to tertiary students, in which they were taught how to use media creation tools on their computers, the basics of animation and how to create a full animated project, the older students did so much better than the younger students that they were in another league. People of the ages 50 and 60+. They were more dedicated and more interested. The younger students 18 to early 20s had more trouble understanding what they were doing and staying focussed. And in my experience as an art student at university it was much the same, older students always did better, without exception. Why is this? When you're older you have more experience and can deal with distractions better. You have much more draws on your time so when you really want to do something you will be more dedicated to it because you have to make that time count. You have more money to put towards to what you're interested in. You care less about the positive or negative reinforcement of others; you don't do what you do for praise and you don't care as much about criticism. Your brain is fully formed so it's not being confudled with hormones or structural changes. Your social situation is more stable and less crucial so it doesn't interfere as much with things you want to do. Obviously there are things that make it harder too: Physically you're more prone to injury and slow healing. You're not as fast. Your eyes and ears might not be as sharp. You have much less free time and have to make moments count more. You haven't got the same dedicated support structure that most younger people have, and so on. But despite all of that the advantages still help older people win out. So learn to do art better, practise writing, learn other languages, learn to dance, play guitar, weld, code, whatever you feel like! Have you got any experience learning something when you're older vs learning as a kid? This week Gunwallace has given us a musical theme inspired by The Midnight Tea Party - Relaxing and exciting! A feathery, glittery explosion of laconic violin and electronica. We’re in heaven and we’re having a rave! Topics and shownotes Links Gunwallace's newspost about Starting Late https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/jun/25/starting-late/ Featured comic: Space Spaghetti - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/jun/24/featured-comic-space-spaghetti/ Featured music: The Midnight Tea Party - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/The_Midnight_Tea_Party/ - by Mystic Hand, rated T. Special thanks to: Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/ Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/ Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean Kawaiidaigakusei - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/kawaiidaigakusei Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/ VIDEO exclusive! Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks! - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts! Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS
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    54 mins
  • Quackcast 745 - I was there
    Jun 24 2025

    History is something big that happens in the past that you look back on and wonder about… ofttimes we only know about it from the pages of a book, old video footage, relics in a museum, or something like that, but there are also living resources for history in the memories of older people and indeed in your OWN head.

    This Quackcast was inspired by me thinking about musicians like Prince, Queen, and David Bowie- many younger people now are looking back on them as if they were musical geniuses, like Beethoven and Mozart, but I can clearly recall when they were just pop-musicians, you were interested to hear their latest stuff on the radio of their latest video but it wasn't ground shaking. They were not considered super dooper massive cultural icons then, in fact they had less regard and hero worship than most modern young celebs do now! Your average popular “influencer” probably gets more regard now than David Bowie did back in the 70s and 80s.

    As Generation Xers Banes, Tantz, and I were part of a world in the later days old the cold war, when it was at its peak, before the end. This flavoured all of culture in all sorts of direct and indirect ways and if you don't understand that then you can't properly understand those cultural products that came out of that time. All the massive prosperity of the west and ultra-capitalism from the 1950s onwards with the USA solidly driving all western culture was because after WW2 the world was split in 2 and everyone had to unite around the USA because they were the strongest power militarily and economically in opposition to the “communist block”, NATO vs the Warsaw Pact.

    It's the reason American media from Hollywood stayed as so huge, the reason American influence in music was so primary, and the same with style, design, and technology. But there are plenty of direct influences too, a character like James Bond makes no sense outside of that split world, in fact nor does any spy fiction that came from then. The Klingons in Star Trek were Russians. The action genre in movies solidly had to do with the cold war- Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger's career's were formed around Cold War influences…

    What big aspects of history where you “there” for? The fall of the Berlin Wall, Perestroika, 9/11, The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, the start of myspace, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and the beginnings of social media and influencer culture, the rise of reality TV, the fall of bookshops…?


    This week Gunwallace was inspired to craft a musical theme to Capricious Infection - A mystical, magical, stargazing sound here, touches of Journey of the Sorcerer by The Eagles. You can imagine you’re in a field in darkness, wandering over cold, dew wet grass and staring up at the vast, glittering majesty of the milky way galaxy above.


    Topics and shownotes

    Links

    Featured comic:
    Wings Of Daera - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/jun/16/featured-comic-wings-of-daera/

    Featured music:
    Capricious Infection - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Capricious_Infection/. - by CressidiasComics, rated T

    Special thanks to:
    Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/
    Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/
    Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean
    Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/


    VIDEO exclusive!
    Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks!
    - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck
    Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts!

    Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS

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    1 hr and 1 min
  • Quackcast 744 - Over Qualified and Overplayed
    Jun 17 2025
    Professions in fiction are usually always portrayed in very exaggerated, super fantastical expert versions of themselves. Like if it's a psychologist they generally know exactly what a person is thinking, why they're thinking a certain way, what all their issues are, why they have them and how to fix them. They can tell if a person is lying and the truth they are coving up by doing so! If it's a police detective and they're a main character they can generally solve any crime pretty easily with their amazing abilities… if they're NOT a main character then they're usually pretty useless though haha! Why is this done? Well there are a few reasons, one is that the creators might not know very much about the profession so they pack in all the best parts of it into their portrayals, especially if they want to show that their character is the best at something. One reason is that it's a good shorthand and saves time and resources if you just pack one character with the skills of 10 people instead of having to write an entire team, so they become almost an avatar that represents the idea of a profession. I think of the character Doctor Hodgins in the TV series Bones, he specialises in slime, bugs, and soil samples at a forensic pathology lab - real experts in that field say that it would require a large team of people to match the work of that character. We commonly see this with action heroes. Spies for example, specifically field agents have so many skills and abilities that they do the work of an army of people. John Wick represents the fictional occupation of a hit-man with fictional skills of solider martial artists. Doctors in fiction (as main characters), can recognise any malady without advanced testing or machinery and usually cure them in a single day. Artists can reproduce any style of work extremely quickly and draw super realistically from memory. Musicians can play any song with no practise and grab an audience's attention and emotion with it in their first performance. Sherlock Holmes is ostensibly a prime example of this trend, he's an expert detective and can solve any crime with almost superhuman powers of observation and leaps of logic. In most versions of him that is how he's always portrayed, but that's actually not quite right since the version of Holmes we're given is mediated through the perspective of his partner Doctor Watson who is astonished by Holmes and hero worships him, so he could almost be considered an “unreliable narrator”. In THIS way Sherlock Holmes could be an example of the CORRECT way to handle this trend: He SEEMS to be a super expert mainly because the view of him we see is recounted by a person who thinks of him that way. What are some issues with this? If it's done too much it can easily get on the nose a ruin suspension of disbelief. It can also create unrealistic expectations in audiences and this can cause REAL harm in reality when people expect all their ills to be easily diagnosed and cured- and when they aren't then they turn to alternative medicine (fake medicine) which promises cures and yet does nothing but pretends it does. People will shun real police who can't seem to solve disappearances fast enough and turn to psychics or even violent vigilantes instead. So there are indeed bad consequences for taking things too far in fiction. Has your job ever been misrepresented this way? What are some of the worst, silliest versions of this trend? What are examples of when it's done right? This week Gunwallace has given us a musical theme inspired by Machine World - Desolate plains, the image of post apocalyptic destruction, black rocky sands, rusting steel wreckage, the massive skeletal remains of long dead machinery, haunted, ancient, abandoned, yet humanity persists. Topics and shownotes Links Featured comic: Drunk Duck Awards 2025 - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/jun/10/featured-comic-drunk-duck-awards-2025/ Featured music: Machine World - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Machine_World/ - by Hamburger_mafia, rated M. Special thanks to: Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/ Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/ Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean Kawaiidaigakusei - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/kawaiidaigakusei Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/ VIDEO exclusive! Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks! - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts! Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS
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    59 mins
  • Quackcast 743 - Lore vs reality
    Jun 10 2025

    This is a weird one to encapsulate, but it was based on an idea I had while re-watching Star Trek the Next Generation and I had to explore it with my fellow Quackcasters, Banes and Tantz. I believe it's generally better to enjoy something in the order it was created rather than the chronological order of the story because you'll understand it so much better in terms of why things are as they are, the creative and aesthetic choices and cultural impact.

    Re-watching all of Star Trek the Next Generation in order taught me so much about how and why the show and characters developed: NOT from a lore and story perspective but from a practical, technical perspective. I'm watching for the stories but I also notice different filming techniques, lighting choices, sets, props, costumes, how and why the actors perform and act in certain ways, line deliveries, and a million other things: basically the reality of the thing and it's interesting to think how that conflicts with fan lore, or “this is why they went this way with the character” vs “the character did that because…” And it's especially powerful if you can connect it to the culture and current events of the time in which it was created.

    Now in the world more often than ever people look at creative projects in a kind of cultural vacuum, totally isolated from any cultural context except their own current culture at the time they view the thing, which is bad enough but people's passion of reboots and prequels compounds this. Whether it's Marvel, Dr Who, Star Trek, Star Wars or whatever you'll see this happen with any popular creative IP: the established meaning of these things will be changed constantly due to retconns and a sort of fan lore takes over as a way to make sense of it all. I think it's important to understand the real reason why things are as they are…
    For example Lando Calrisian wears a cape in The Empire Strikes Back because the costume people dress Billy Dee Williams that way to show he was the ruler of the Cloud City, to give him authority and majesty, while the prequel film, Hans Solo, retconns it into him wearing capes because he's a silly pansexusal fop, totally changing and misunderstanding all aspects of the character.

    That said though it is also very important that later generations are able to develop their own cultural connections with established IPs in their own way and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact if they can't then those IPs will die, their continued interest and passion is what keeps those things alive and current! It's just important not to lose sight of why things really developed as they did and enjoy things for what they are rather than for what they are AFTER retconns.

    Hahaha, I hope this makes some sense? What are the most annoying bits of fan lore you've come across? Personally I can't stand the Warhammer 40k lore now, it just gets worse and worse as time goes on.


    This week Gunwallace was inspired to craft a musical theme to Bad Mix - Quite, chill, creeping, slowly sliding, finding, searching… this one will keep you on edge. It has a very unnerving tilt to it!


    Topics and shownotes

    Links

    Featured comic:
    Dream Eaters - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/jun/02/featured-comic-dream-eaters/

    Featured music:
    Bad Mix - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Bad_Mix/ - by GabeRoch, rated M.

    Special thanks to:
    Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/
    Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/
    Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean
    Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/


    VIDEO exclusive!
    Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks!
    - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck
    Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts!

    Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS

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    1 hr
  • Quackcast 742 - ex-special forces!
    Jun 3 2025

    It seems like every single “badass” in TV, Movies, books and comics is “ex-special forces” or something like it these days. It's become a meaningless cliche. Writers use it as a shortcut to show a person is super tough and competent, able to handle ANY situation and also have a dark past. We chat about how silly it is to overdo the cliche and why “being ex-special-forces” doesn't really make a person better at being a “bad-ass” than anyone else.

    More likely it means they're probably a more burnt out, have far more injuries, PTSD, and more personal demons than the average person. Special forces soldiers tend to get deployed more than others and they train more and harder. Many are killed in training or acquire bad injuries from it and PTSD, let alone from active service. Aside from that rather than being taciturn with a thousand yard stare and a grumpy personality and a gravely voice, all special forces people I've met have been entirely normal people, indistinguishable from anyone else.

    Rambo from the first movie is one of my fave examples, he's an unstoppable killing machine but at least the story tries to explore his PTSD and the terrible way his country abandoned him when it had no more use for him. What are your fave ex-special forces people in fiction?

    This week it's another best-off Gunwallace and so we're replaying a track from Quackcast 209: Joe Pop! This was a great little theme that Gunwallace wrote funny lines for in the style of the characters from the comic strip, Joe Pop. Banes and I act them out! I'm on bass.

    Topics and shownotes

    Links

    Featured comic:
    Everything Will Be Fine at Dawn - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/may/27/featured-comic-everything-will-be-fine-at-dawn/

    Featured music:
    Joe Pop - http://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Joe_Pop/ - by Dave63, rated E.

    Special thanks to:
    Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/
    Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/
    Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean
    Kawaiidaigakusei - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/kawaiidaigakusei
    Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/

    VIDEO exclusive!
    Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks!
    - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck
    Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts!

    Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS

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    1 hr and 3 mins
  • Quackcast 741 - Hooks
    May 27 2025

    Sometimes you get hooked into things, you become a fan and you wonder how you got there. A while ago you were laughing at those dorky, obsessed fans over there and now suddenly you're one of them! That's what we're talking about in this cast, the things that hook you in and our own stories about what we were unexpectedly hooked into.

    The idea came to me as I was making a coffee and signing the words to XTCs Great Fire. It's a silly song with lyrics about a fire burning in Noah's Arc and also in a house, which is a metaphor for the singer's growing love. XTC is a strange, very progressive British pop group from the 70s and 80s. They have some extremely thoughtful and intelligent songs about culture and social issues and many that are just foolish pop-songs and yet I like them all and happily sing along to them. But I wondered how I got there.

    It was 1994, I was extremely sick with chickenpox, trapped in my bed for weeks with nothing but books and my radio for company. Every so often the same few songs would come on the radio and I began to love them. I cant remember them all now but there was Spoonman by Sound Garden, Positive Bleeding by Urge Overkill, and Senses Working Overtime by XTC. Senses Working Overtime is a sort of a mediaeval chant and drone, paired with pure bubblegum pop about empirical philosophy. It's about our perception of the world and the difference between what we're told and what we personally experience. I find it beautiful. I had no idea why they kept playing that song though, it came out in 1982 and it wasn't being re-released, there was no reason for it to be played over and over at that time along with recently released hit songs.

    In fact I couldn't even track it down. Years later it was re-released on their best-off album, Fossil Fuel, but even THAT was hard to track down because none of the music shops stocked it or could order it for me. When I finally got it I listed to all the songs over and over and became a fan. I was indoctrinated! I love their crazy silly pop-songs and their intellectual stuff about the failings of society equally. In this Quackcast we have a few similar stories, like the way we were drawn in to Star Trek while we initially found it dorky, and things like Buffy the Vampire slayer, Harry Potter etc.

    Do you have stories about things you were hooked into? if so, what were the hooks? Did you know that I didn't even like comics till an art lecturer forced me to draw them and it wasn't till I was posting my comics on Drunk Duck that I actually started to appreciate comics in general?


    In Gunwallace's words: An odd little thing for Quail's random, based on my Thursday post. Quails Random - A random melange of majestic influences, cat yowls and alien sounds. This is a glorious mixture of melodic mastery that shouldn’t blend but somehow does!


    Topics and shownotes

    Links

    Senses Working Overtime by XTC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrcemZpOmpI

    Featured comic:
    Little Miss Allison Blue - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/may/19/featured-comic-little-miss-allison-blue/

    Featured music:
    Quails Random - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/may/20/random-quail-comics/ - Inspired by Gunwallace's newspost.

    Special thanks to:
    Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/
    Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/
    Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean
    Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/


    VIDEO exclusive!
    Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks!
    - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck
    Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts!

    Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS

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    1 hr
  • Quackcast 740 - DD Radio play 4 planning!
    May 20 2025

    Do you like acting? Do you like being part of collabs or community projects? Do you like radio plays? If you answered yes to any of that the DD radio play is for you! Way back in 2011 we did our very first Drunk Duck Radio Play and NOW we're reviving the idea! We have a brand new DD Radio Play and we need YOU to be a part of it!

    In 2011 when we did our first play it was an amazing community project that so many of our great members participated in. Ally Heart wrote the script, many different people supplied voices for the characters, and even MORE people did comic pages for the comic version. In 2012 and 2013 Gunwallace wrote the scripts and people returned happily to be a part of it. Unfortunately around that time our site went through so troubled times and we lost focus for big community projects so there was never a fourth play… till now!

    Gunwallace has found the his 3rd script and that's what we wont YOU to join in with. Our DD plays are comedies focussed around a parody detective noir theme. The lead characters are always Maxwell McDuff, a gritty private detective, and Bill Duck who's an adventurer and world traveller hero type person. They get into all sorts of strange scrapes and daring mysteries. You can check out the latest scrip and see if you'd like to submit a voice tryout for any or all of the characters in the link in our shownotes. Also let us know if you'd like to have a go at the comic version!

    Special note- we had fun trying to do a live radio play version of our sexy collab comic Key of Dreams, which we'll now be uploading to the site. Lin in the shownotes.

    This week Gunwallace gave us a theme inspired by A Wing To the Stars - Melancholy, starkly blue waves of dim light in the glittering darkness of a dead galaxy.


    Topics and shownotes

    Links

    Our NEW DD radio play script - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/forum/topic/179981/

    ALL THREE previous DD radio plays are here - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/quackcast/episode-147-merry-xmas-dd-radio-play-omnibus-edition/

    Our sexy collab comic NOW online!! - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/Key_of_Dreams/

    Featured comic:
    The Cloud Girls - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2025/may/13/featured-comic-the-cloud-girls/

    Featured music:
    A Wing To the Stars - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/A_Wing_To_The_Stars/ - by Zerahoc, rated T.

    Special thanks to:
    Gunwallace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Gunwallace/
    Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/
    Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean
    Kawaiidaigakusei - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/kawaiidaigakusei
    Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/

    VIDEO exclusive!
    Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks!
    - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck
    Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts!

    Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS

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    54 mins