The question keeps showing up everywhere — on Substack, in comment sections, in podcasts: where is modern protest music? Recorded live at Podfort during Treefort Music Festival, Emily and Trevor are joined by Rob Lanterman — musician, music writer, and label owner— to answer it.

Turns out protest music never left. We're just stuck in our filter bubbles (again).

We trace how growing up evangelical-adjacent shaped our relationship to political music (System of a Down taught Trevor about the Armenian Genocide; Emily felt subversive listening to Relient K; Rob felt guilty writing a Bush diss on his acoustic guitar), why mainstream artists are increasingly afraid to say anything, and what's happening in the corners of the music world where the resistance is loud and explicit. We also talk about why authoritarians make terrible art — and why that matters right now.

Segments & Timestamps:

0:00 - Welcome & Introducing Rob Lanterman

5:45 - Our Evangelical Backgrounds & Protest Music

19:08 - What We're Listening to Now

25:25 - Where Is Modern Protest Music?

34:03 - Why Art & Resistance Matter

36:46 - Artists Making Protest Music Today

43:21 - Closing & Credits

Mentioned:

DIY as a Positive Force for Good: Rob Lanterman for bandNada

THE NUANCE HOUR’S NON-COMPREHENSIVE PLAYLIST OF PROTEST MUSIC FROM THE YEARS by Rob Lanterman

Connect With Us:

Produced and Engineered by ⁠Ken Wilson⁠ | Original Music by ⁠Robert Lanterman⁠

Website: ⁠thenuancehour.com⁠

Instagram: ⁠@thenuancehour⁠

Email: thenuancehour@gmail.com

In this episode, we drop any pretense of emotional distance and sit with the rage, grief, and fear stirred up by the killings of Alex Pretti and Renee Good in Minneapolis and the broader wave of state violence and ICE abuses. We wrestle with what it means to honor anger without abandoning our core commitment to bridge-building, and we ask a simple but urgent question: What do we want to tell our grandkids we did during this time?

Trevor unpacks some bad-faith “what about” arguments, and we discuss the theological and moral failures of American evangelicalism in this moment, and why some conservatives’ defenses of government violence amount to either ignorance, bad faith, or straight-up bullshit. We connect the dots from ICE raids to competitive authoritarianism, from Romans 13 to Harry Frankfurt, from the Declaration of Independence to today’s headlines—all in an attempt to name the Rubicon we’re crossing and insist that government-sanctioned killing of citizens is a line we must refuse to normalize.

Segments & Timestamps:

00:00 - Content Warning & Join us at our Treefort Live Show!
02:59 - Setting the Stage
06:39 - Violence, Authoritarianism & Responsibility
10:25 - Minneapolis Killings & ICE
17:33 - “What About?” Arguments
21:51 - Law, Order & Hypocrisy
28:44 - Evangelicals & State Power
37:07 - Lying vs. Bullshitting
43:37 - Competitive Authoritarianism
52:34 - Future of the GOP
59:48 - Founding Ideals & Tyranny
1:01:58 - Good News: Ellis Island Day
1:04:27 - Good Take: Ben Cremer
1:06:38 - Closing & Credits

Mentioned:

French in NYT: ‘Noem Needs to Go’: Three Columnists on ICE in Minneapolis

Ben Cremer: @brcremer

On Bullshit by Harry Frankfurt

Come see us at Treefort!

Connect With Us:

Produced and Engineered by ⁠Ken Wilson⁠ | Original Music by ⁠Robert Lanterman⁠

Website: ⁠thenuancehour.com⁠

Instagram: ⁠@thenuancehour⁠

Email: thenuancehour@gmail.com

In this episode, we finally dive deep into religion—the topic we've been promising since day one. We're thrilled to be joined by Reverend Benjamin Cremer, who brings serious theological credentials and two decades of pastoral experience. More importantly, Ben brings the kind of honest, historically-grounded perspective on American Christianity that cuts through the Christian nationalist white noise (pun intended).

We each share our spiritual journeys and unpack the movements that shaped our parents (and us), explore why American Christianity's extremists have become its loudest representatives, and ask the big question: does American Christianity exist outside of its dirty deal with power?

We also tackle where Gen Z fits into all this, why men are flocking back to rigid religion, what the "church of piety" looks like, and whether there's hope in Christianity's historical pattern of resistance movements. Spoiler: monasteries were the original protest against empire, and every reformation comes with reformers who get crucified for it.

Segments & Timestamps:

00:00 - Introducing Reverend Ben Cremer

00:25 - Episode Preview

01:40 - Meet Ben Cremer

04:05 - Historical Context

08:33 - Ben's Early Years

12:18 - Escaping Extremism

16:25 - Seminary & Grace

17:50 - Compensation Crisis

20:16 - Losing Credentials

25:25 - Online Ministry

31:12 - Church as Club

35:06 - Trevor's Background

38:03 - End Times

39:56 - Reformed Phase

42:02 - Philosophy & Faith

44:06 - Episcopal Discovery

47:14 - Emily's Journey

50:14 - Homeschool Movement

54:56 - Cult Years

58:08 - Church & Trauma

1:00:31 - American Christianity

1:05:05 - Gen Z

1:09:53 - Hope

1:13:27 - Church of Piety

1:18:12 - Wrap Up

1:20:27 - Outro

Mentioned:

Chad Kim's podcast: History of Christian Theology

Ben Cremer's newsletter: Into the Gray

Ben Cremer on social media: @brcremer

Ben Cremer's Substack

Connect With Us:

Produced and Engineered by ⁠Ken Wilson⁠ | Original Music by ⁠Robert Lanterman⁠

Website: ⁠thenuancehour.com⁠

Instagram: ⁠@thenuancehour⁠

Email: thenuancehour@gmail.com