When the world shifts under your feet, what do you do next? In this episode, Indra talks with bestselling children’s author Nancy Krulik about the art of resilience and reinvention. From investigative journalism to over 250 books for kids — and now animation — Nancy’s career is a masterclass in adapting, learning, and staying curious when plans fall apart.

Together, they explore what it takes to recognize when it’s time to pivot, how to turn setbacks into opportunities, and why nothing you learn is ever wasted. Nancy shares hard-earned lessons on staying grounded through industry changes, embracing new tools (including AI), and rediscovering hidden talents along the way.

If you’ve ever been knocked down and wondered how to begin again — this conversation is your reminder that resilience isn’t just about bouncing back; it’s about changing course with purpose.

Listen for:

• How to turn a downturn into a creative turning point
• The value of lifelong learning and fearless experimentation
• Why “nothing is ever wasted” — even the hard parts
• How staying true to your craft helps you weather change

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Nancy’s Website: https://www.realnancykrulik.com/
• Monsters Aren’t Real???: https://www.youtube.com/@MonstersArentRealCartoon
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

Business goals and human behavior don’t always line up — and the friction can stall progress, frustrate teams, and leave leaders scratching their heads. In this episode, we dive into real-world examples where business logic clashes with human tendencies, from time tracking to communication challenges and conflicting incentives. We share strategies for bridging the gap, including clear rationale, collaboration across teams, and open forums to build trust. If you’ve ever wondered why good processes fail despite good intentions, this episode is for you.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Amanda Jane Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandajanelee/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

Perfectionism can drive excellence — but it can also stall progress, create stress, and keep teams stuck. In this episode, we explore the “pencils down” metaphor, helping you recognize when good enough is actually brilliant. We discuss the roots and benefits of perfectionism, the pitfalls of over-editing and micromanagement, and how leaders can model healthy standards. Packed with practical strategies for releasing control, encouraging iteration, and knowing when to move on, this episode is a guide for anyone ready to break free from perfectionism without sacrificing quality.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Amanda Jane Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandajanelee/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

Thinking about leaving corporate America but not sure what it really takes? In this episode, Indra sits down with Ashley Grace Jefferson to explore the mental, emotional, and practical shifts involved in breaking free from the corporate system.

They unpack the culture and incentives of corporate life, address the fears and stigma around leaving, and discuss the logistical realities—from health insurance to financial planning—that often catch people off guard. Ashley and Indra share personal stories of doubt, courage, and resilience, highlighting the importance of community, support systems, and authentic identity when taking the leap.

Whether you’re dreaming of entrepreneurship, a career pivot, or simply choosing yourself over a paycheck, this conversation offers insight, encouragement, and actionable advice for making the jump and building a life on your own terms.

Key Takeaways:

• Recognize the mental and emotional shifts required to leave corporate life.
• Prepare for practical realities like benefits, finances, and pricing your work.
• Build community and support systems to replace what you leave behind.
• Embrace vulnerability, resilience, and the evolution of your authentic identity.
• Take the leap even if you don’t feel “ready”—your path will grow with you.

Join us and discover how to choose yourself, navigate uncertainty, and redefine what freedom and fulfillment mean in your career.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Ashley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleygracejefferson/
• Ashley’s Website: ashleygracejefferson.com/
• Ashley’s Newsletter: startup-baddie.beehiiv.com/
• Ashley on Threads: https://www.threads.com/@startupbaddie
• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
• Indra’s Website: peopleprocessthings.com
• Indra’s Newsletter: peopleprocessthings.substack.com/
• Interview with Cindy Gallop (3 addictions): https://youtu.be/eAJu225PcQU?si=5HETDKxb62OmbL1w

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra sits down with Juleen Mahabeer-Jackson to explore what it really feels like to be at a career crossroads. From packing up her life (and two cats!) to drive across the country, to rethinking what success looks like beyond job titles, Juleen shares her story of stepping outside her comfort zone and learning to trust herself. Together, Indra and Juleen unpack the tension between chasing external validation and building a life that feels authentic, sustainable, and joyful. They also reflect on the pressure of “picking your struggle,” filling your own cup, and how content creation can be both a tool for clarity and a leap of faith in itself. If you’ve ever wondered whether to keep climbing the ladder or carve your own path, this conversation is for you.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Juleen Mahabeer-Jackson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juleenbean/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

Branding yourself isn’t optional anymore—it’s essential. In this episode, Indra sits down with Ashley Grace Jefferson, founder of Startup Baddie and F3 (Founders, Funders & Fractionals), to explore how to stand out, show up authentically, and even rebrand yourself when the time is right.

They dive into the signs it’s time to rebrand, the difference between corporate and personal branding, and practical steps for making your brand visible—like social media, websites, and visual identity. Ashley shares her own journey, including the story behind her now-famous “Startup Baddie” identity, and offers actionable tips listeners can use immediately.

Beyond the practical, they explore the emotional side of branding: vulnerability, imposter syndrome, handling feedback, and embracing radical acceptance as your brand evolves. Whether you’re an entrepreneur or a professional navigating the modern workplace, this conversation is full of insights to help you feel seen, confident, and ready to take bold steps forward.

Key Takeaways:

• Recognize when it’s time to rebrand and why it matters.
• Align your brand with your values, personality, and goals.
• Show up authentically while managing fear and self-doubt.
• Take concrete steps to make your brand visible and consistent.
• Embrace the ongoing evolution of your personal or professional identity.

Join us, and get ready to stand out, show up, and let your brand grow with you!

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Ashley Jefferson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleygracejefferson/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

Your professional identity shapes how others see you, how you show up, and the opportunities that come your way. In this episode, we explore the difference between brand (how you want to be seen) and reputation (how others actually see you), and share practical strategies for defining and communicating your identity at work. We dive into real-world examples, tips for aligning your actions with your intentions, and ways to make your presence consistent across teams, projects, and platforms.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Amanda Jane Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandajanelee/
• Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra is joined by Victor Malena, founder of Ops on Tap, to explore the subtle but powerful difference between being smart and being prepared.

Victor shares a career-shaping story from an early mentor who taught him that success often comes less from being the "smartest person in the room" and more from being the one most ready to engage, ask questions, and adapt. Together, Indra and Victor unpack what preparedness looks like in practice—curiosity, clarity, and creating space for others to contribute—while reflecting on how identity, leadership, and even AI play into the dynamics of modern work.

Whether you identify as an operator, a leader, or someone navigating the messy middle of your own career, this conversation offers fresh insight into why preparation isn’t just a safety net—it’s a strategy for thriving.

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: shop.themessymiddlematters.com
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback
• Victor Malena on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-malena/