The Marketing 32 Show cover art

The Marketing 32 Show

The Marketing 32 Show

By: Brett Allen
Listen for free

About this listen

 This is the Marketing 32 Show, a show that connects with leading dentists, influencers, and experts to explore strategies and innovations that help dental practices grow and thrive.The Marketing 32 Show (c) 2024 Economics Leadership Management & Leadership Marketing Marketing & Sales
Episodes
  • "If We're Not Failing, We're Not Trying": How Turning Dentistry Into a Trade and Celebrating Failures Built a Multi-Location Powerhouse

    "If We're Not Failing, We're Not Trying": How Turning Dentistry Into a Trade and Celebrating Failures Built a Multi-Location Powerhouse
    Mar 24 2026
    What happens when someone who didn't know what a prophy was—or even understand what a root canal really involved—answers phones at a dental practice, falls in love with the leadership piece, and eventually becomes director of operations for a growing group practice with a weekly executive cadence focused on celebrating failures? Denae Black has turned dentistry into her trade over 20 years, climbing from front desk to office manager to director of operations, learning that the key to scaling from one location to multiple practices isn't about having perfect systems—it's about having consistent systems that everyone follows the same way, giving yourself grace for the 20% that will be different based on team and patient base, and getting comfortable with difficult conversations. After her husband's Air Force orders relocated them from Arizona to North Carolina, she joined a practice where she sat on the executive level team with Eric Roman as visionary, working alongside directors of marketing, hygiene, and finance in structured weekly meetings where the mantra was clear: if you're not failing, you're not trying. Now as owner and consultant of Dental DNA Consulting, she takes clients through a three-phase journey—Dream It (define what you're building), Narrate (create a customized plan), Accelerate (roll up sleeves and implement)—partnering closely with practices navigating transitions like expanding locations, dropping insurance, reducing clinical days, or preparing for retirement. In this conversation, Denae reveals why leadership is the most common barrier holding practices back (you know the hard conversations you need to have, you're just not prioritizing them), why annual performance reviews are useless (you're really only reviewing the last 2-3 months anyway), and why communication isn't just important—it's the difference between being a proactive leader versus a reactive one who has no idea the hygienist was unhappy until she puts in her notice. She shares her trust tracker system for managing weekly check-ins without formal calendar blocks, the paper airplane exercise that proves consistent systems beat perfect systems every time, and why her biggest wins aren't revenue numbers—they're when dentists finally take month-long international vacations because their practice works for them instead of them working for their practice. If you've ever wondered how to transition from operator to CEO, why quarterly reviews replace annual ones, or what it really takes to build a practice with intention rather than just reacting by default, this episode will give you the clarity and vision you've been missing. Denae Black never imagined dentistry would become her trade, but when she started answering phones at a group practice in Arizona—not knowing what a prophy was or really understanding what a root canal involved—the practice took her under their wing and taught her everything: phones, check-in, check-out, treatment planning, eventually office management. She fell in love with the leadership piece. When her husband got Air Force orders to relocate to North Carolina, she took a director of operations position that unlocked her passion for the business side of dentistry. This was where she learned the foundation of systems, best practices, and what it takes to scale from one location to two to three and beyond. She eventually consulted with various groups before launching Dental DNA Consulting independently in May 2024, turning her 20-year journey from knowing nothing into a comprehensive trade mastery. Her background with Eric Roman and Josie Sewell taught her that growing a group practice isn't about perfection—it's about structure, consistency, and culture. She sat on an executive team of five (visionary, director of ops, director of marketing, director of hygiene, finance) with structured weekly cadence meetings focused on one mantra: if you're not failing, you're not trying. Getting uncomfortable and celebrating failures was essential. The key insight: 80% of what happens in a practice can be duplicated, but 20% will be different based on team, patient base, and flow—so give yourself grace while maintaining strong systems. The DNA approach she developed takes clients through three phases: Dream It (D), Narrate (N), and Accelerate (A). The Dream It phase locks in what you're building—defining your vision and ensuring team structure supports that dream. Many dentists have ideas but don't know how to communicate them, so this phase creates clarity. The Narrate phase builds a customized plan to actually make it happen, and the Accelerate phase is where Denae rolls up her sleeves and partners with the team to bring everything to life. Her ideal clients are practices navigating transitions: expanding from one to two locations, dropping from five clinical days to three or four, navigating dropping insurance, or preparing for retirement. These clients are goal-oriented, which aligns ...
    Show More Show Less
    27 mins
  • "You Do Teeth, Not Brain": Why Your Competitor for Talent Isn't the Practice Down the Street—It's Papa John's Pizza

    "You Do Teeth, Not Brain": Why Your Competitor for Talent Isn't the Practice Down the Street—It's Papa John's Pizza
    Mar 17 2026
    What happens when a vet tech with a certification gets less PTO than their friend bagging groceries at Papa John's? Or when dental assistants realize they can make the same hourly rate clerking at a grocery store without spending money on a certificate or dealing with office drama? Kara Kelley, CEO of Clinical HR and nationally recognized HR strategist, has spent her career helping dental practices navigate the uncomfortable truth that the hiring crisis wasn't created by the pandemic—it was compounded by it. After finishing her bachelor's in business with an HR concentration back in 2012, she landed at a dental CPA firm doing marketing (of all things), spent seven and a half years wearing multiple hats, then launched her own HR firm in February 2020—right before the world shut down. She immediately pivoted to helping practices lay off teams, bring them back, and navigate the "alphabet soup of compliance" that followed. Now with senior-level credentials including SHRM-SCP and SPHR, she partners with dentists and practice leaders to reduce risk, strengthen teams, and build practices worth working for—not just practices that desperately hire the first person who shows up on time and sober. In this conversation, Kara reveals why hygienists are choosing temp work over permanent positions (spoiler: dentistry created this problem by treating them like second-class citizens for decades), why working interviews don't actually work (you're just throwing people into workflow and hoping for the best), and why your biggest competitor for talent in 2026 isn't the dental practice down the street—it's every work-from-home opportunity and gig economy job that offers flexibility without requiring a degree. She shares the one interview question you absolutely cannot ask (mental health), the safe script for reference checks (last held title, dates of employment, eligibility for rehire—flat monotone, repeat if needed), and why the future of dental hiring requires thinking outside the dental box. If you've ever wondered why Gen Z and Gen Alpha will change everything, why unlimited PTO actually decreases time off, or how to partner with your marketing company on recruiting strategy, this episode will completely shift your perspective on what it takes to build a team in the modern dental landscape. Kara Kelley never planned to spend her career in dentistry—she was finishing her bachelor's in business with an HR concentration back in 2012, planning to climb the corporate ladder at a Fortune 500 HR department as a coordinator. But serendipity and adaptability intervened. Because 2012 wasn't like today's hiring market where practices sometimes hire "the first person who shows up on time and sober," she needed something on her resume beyond self-employment. She landed at a dental CPA firm doing marketing of all things, and stayed for seven and a half years, wearing multiple hats: marketing, business development, HR advisor, and internal HR for the firm itself. Like most dental practices who are small businesses, she lived the "wear a lot of hats" mentality from the beginning. After getting tired of being mistaken for an accountant, she decided to step out and lean into the HR side, launching Clinical HR in February 2020—right before the pandemic hit. Instead of building her firm the traditional way, she immediately pivoted to helping practices lay off teams, bring them back, and navigate the alphabet soup of compliance that emerged during that chaotic period. Since then, she's focused on making sure practices are compliant, building cultures where teams treat patients well (because teams who feel treated well treat patients well), and helping practices enjoy the dentistry they do while ensuring compliance won't come back to bite them later. With senior-level credentials including SHRM-SCP (Society for Human Resource Management, Senior Certified Professional) and SPHR (Senior Professional Human Resources Certification from HR Certification Institute), Kara now partners with practices on internal HR assessments, employee handbooks, job descriptions, and strategizing around finding and retaining top talent—the issue of the day for the last decade and still dominating 2026. One of the biggest hiring mistakes she sees is culture fit mismatches that could be avoided with better upfront conversations. She recently worked with a practice that brought on someone from a fee-for-service practice with big bonuses and high paychecks, but the new practice was a mission-driven, heavy Medicaid, community-focused operation. The economics didn't align with the passion project mentality, and the employee wasn't a fit. This happens because practices hire out of desperation—they need somebody there to maintain the patient schedule, prevent burnout from understaffing, so they hire the first person with availability who'll take the hourly wage without deep-diving on fit. Then even when they find the right person, they're not ready ...
    Show More Show Less
    30 mins
  • From COVID Grad to $8M in 5 Years: How a New Dentist Built a Group Practice with Christmas Cookies and Negotiation Power

    From COVID Grad to $8M in 5 Years: How a New Dentist Built a Group Practice with Christmas Cookies and Negotiation Power
    Mar 10 2026
    What happens when a brand-new dentist graduates in the middle of COVID, can't find an associateship because everything's closed, and decides to buy two practices within four months—then turns a million-dollar skeleton practice into a $5M operation after buying it for just $60K? Dr. Rehan Shahid calls himself "the business guy who just happens to be a dentist"—and in five short years since graduating in 2020, he's built a four-location group practice generating nearly $8M annually, all 100% privately owned with zero private equity involvement. But here's what makes his story remarkable: he didn't rely on expensive ad campaigns or fancy marketing firms. Instead, he stood outside with tooth-shaped balloons, delivered Christmas cookies to 25 local businesses with personalized letters (creating instant social media domination), and built relationships with ER departments and cardiologists who needed dental clearances. His mission was simple but powerful: "Be so ridiculously famous in my town that everyone can't help but know about me." Now through Practice Success Academy, he's coaching dentists and their managers together—because he learned that dentists are "lazy people" and "horrible operators" who have amazing ideas but need strong managers to actually implement them. If you've ever wondered how to scale without burnout, why coaching the manager is more important than coaching the dentist, or how $100 worth of cookies beats any digital ad campaign, this conversation will completely shift your perspective on growth, systems, and what it really takes to dominate your market. Dr. Rehan Shahid never planned to be an average dentist—he planned to be "the business guy who just happens to be a dentist." But when he graduated in 2020, COVID had other plans. Two months after graduating, everything closed, eliminating any chance of working as an associate. So he did what any entrepreneurial-minded new grad would do: he bought a practice. Then two months later, he bought another one. Within four months of graduating dental school, he owned two practices and had to learn extremely quickly how to survive and thrive in business. The silver lining of COVID was all the free time it created—time Rehan used to devour books, listen to podcasts, and self-educate on business fundamentals that dental school never taught. His mindset was simple but powerful: "I know I'm going to have to make mistakes to learn. Let me just make them as fast as I can so I can pass that route and move forward." From day one, he knew he wanted to be a multi-practice owner, and his ambition was to make mistakes rapidly, extract lessons, and scale quickly. His growth strategy defied conventional wisdom about expensive digital marketing campaigns. Instead of pouring money into Facebook ads and Google PPC, Rehan focused on community domination. He stood outside with tooth-shaped balloons introducing himself as the local dentist. He attended every community event. His mission: "Be so ridiculously famous in my town that everyone can't help but know about me." The Christmas cookie strategy became legendary—delivering personalized letters and cookies to 25 local businesses, taking selfies with entire teams, knowing they'd post it on social media. Total cost: $100 for 25 boxes at $5 each. The result: 25 businesses sharing on their social platforms, dominating the community in one day—better ROI than any digital ad campaign. He repeated the strategy with Thanksgiving pies, built relationships with ER departments (who see patients needing dental treatment), and connected with cardiologists and orthopedic surgeons who need dental clearances before procedures. The second practice was a stroke of luck combined with savvy negotiation: a million-dollar practice in his hometown where the doctor passed away, the wife never sold it, and it sat closed for six months until all patients left. Texas law says you can't own a practice long without a dentist, giving Rehan enormous negotiation power. He bought it for $60K—now it's a $5M practice. Through building this four-location group (aiming for 25 in three years, all 100% privately owned with no private equity), Rehan discovered something crucial: dentists are "lazy people" and "horrible operators" with amazing ideas but poor implementation skills. The real key to success isn't coaching the dentist alone—it's coaching the dentist AND the manager together. If a practice has a great manager, the dentist flourishes. If the manager isn't strong, the dentist becomes only as strong as their weakest link. Through Practice Success Academy, Rehan now helps dentists buy back their time and scale by developing managers into true leaders who can implement systems, establish metrics, and drive accountability. He meets managers one-on-one without the dentist present to identify real bottlenecks, then serves as the third-party voice delivering respectful feedback neither side wants to give directly. The biggest ...
    Show More Show Less
    31 mins
No reviews yet
In the spirit of reconciliation, Audible acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today.