2,500 years of strategy, 11 books, one afternoon.

Hugh White is Australia's foremost strategic thinker: former senior adviser to Defence Minister Kim Beazley and Prime Minister Bob Hawke, Deputy Secretary for Strategy and Intelligence in Defence, inaugural Director of ASPI, and principal author of the 2000 Defence White Paper. He is now Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at the Australian National University.

Before this conversation, I asked Hugh for the eleven books that most shaped his thinking on strategy, international relations and defence policy. We work through them one by one — what each book argues, what it gets right and wrong, how it shaped his worldview — and use them to tackle the big questions: why great powers start disastrous wars, how international orders collapse, and how Australia and America should respond to the rise of China.

Episode resources

• Hugh's strategy reading short list: https://josephnoelwalker.com/hughwhite/
• Hugh's strategy reading long list: https://josephnoelwalker.com/hugh-whites-strategy-reading-list/
• Hugh's 1993 Tathra note: https://josephnoelwalker.com/hugh-whites-tathra-note/

Sponsors

• Eucalyptus: the Aussie startup providing digital healthcare clinics to help patients around the world take control of their quality of life. Euc is looking to hire ambitious young Aussies and Brits. You can check out their open roles at eucalyptus.health/careers.
• Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

To sponsor a future episode, go to https://josephnoelwalker.com/sponsor/

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Peter Costello is the longest-serving Treasurer of Australia (1996–2007).

He led the most complex overhaul of Australia's tax system in the postwar era: introducing the Goods and Services Tax (GST) — a value-added consumption tax — while abolishing a range of indirect taxes (notably wholesale sales tax) and cutting income-tax rates.

I wanted to learn from Peter what it actually takes to achieve a reform at that scale — and why we haven’t managed anything like it since.

In this conversation, we discuss:

• GST implementation war stories;
• lessons on how to get big things done in government;
• why major reform became so much harder after 2000;
• why Peter would sometimes hide revenue estimates even from the prime minister; and
• the baby bonus (introduced in 2004), which led to an uptick in Australia's total fertility rate — making Australia one of the only western countries to increase (albeit temporarily) its TFR since the demographic transition began.

Episode sponsor:

• Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

One bacterium causes roughly 1 in 20 cancer cases worldwide. It’s the most cancer-causing pathogen we’ve found—and the main cause of peptic ulcers. Its discovery overturned an ironclad medical dogma that the stomach was sterile.

Despite infecting about half of humanity, Helicobacter pylori wasn't discovered until 1979 and shown to cause gastritis and peptic ulcer disease in the early 1980s. Why did it evade detection for so long—and what finally broke through the consensus?

I went to Perth, Australia—where H. pylori was first discovered—to chat with Barry Marshall, gastroenterologist and co-recipient (with Robin Warren) of the 2005 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for discovering H. pylori and proving that it causes gastritis and peptic ulcer disease. Marshall famously infected himself with the bacterium to demonstrate causality and later helped develop clinical diagnostics like the urea breath test, which we demo live in the episode.

We discuss:

• the rise and fall of stomach cancer in the West;

• whether Darwin’s dyspepsia and Napoleon's stomach cancer trace to H. pylori;

• the ulcer–cancer paradox;

• Correa’s cascade: what H. pylori eradication reverses—and what it doesn’t;

• the “H. pylori enigmas” (Africa, India, Costa Rica);

• eradication prospects and an oral vaccine timeline;

• how the field missed the discovery;

• how the primitive internet enabled the discovery;

• what the H. pylori discovery teaches us about how knowledge diffuses;

• lessons from manufacturing millions of tests in Perth;

• and much, much more.

Episode sponsors:

• Eucalyptus: the Aussie startup providing digital healthcare clinics to help patients around the world take control of their quality of life. Euc is looking to hire ambitious young Aussies and Brits. You can check out their open roles at eucalyptus.health/careers.
• Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stagnation! The 2010s witnessed Australia’s weakest productivity growth in six decades.

How much of the slowdown is homegrown? How much reflects the broader “great stagnation” plaguing the West?

How much is simply an artefact of the way “productivity” is measured?

And what would a credible new growth model for Australia—with its distinctive reliance on mining over manufacturing—actually look like?

To answer these questions and more, I’m joined by two of Australia’s smartest economists.

Greg Kaplan is the Alvin H. Baum Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago. He is also the cofounder and chairman of e61, a non-partisan economic economic research institute in Australia.

Michael Brennan is the CEO of e61. He was previously chair of Australia's Productivity Commission and a Deputy Secretary of the Australian Treasury.

We discuss the forces behind falling construction productivity; how to think about “Australia’s most productive company”; where to find quality gains in the services sector; what we can learn from the stunning innovativeness of Australia’s agricultural industry; why we need new economic engines beyond the Sydney–Melbourne duopoly; and much, much more.

Episode sponsors:

• Eucalyptus: the Aussie startup providing digital healthcare clinics to help patients around the world take control of their quality of life. Euc is looking to hire ambitious young Aussies and Brits. You can check out their open roles at eucalyptus.health/careers.
• Vanta: helps businesses automate security and compliance needs. For a limited time, get one thousand dollars off Vanta at vanta.com/joe. Use the discount code "JOE".

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Francis Fukuyama is a Stanford political scientist and the author of (among many other works) The End of History and the Last Man—arguably the most influential work in political science of the past half-century.

If “History” is driven by technology, how does Fukuyama now view biotech and AI—and their potential to usher in a new, post-human history?

These are difficult questions, but I wanted to ask Frank about topics that are both important and (at least for AI) on which he has spoken little until now.

We also get a sneak peek at his forthcoming book and discuss his ideas on bureaucracies, delegation, and state capacity.

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Laura Deming is a technologist and venture capitalist focused on anti-ageing and life extension. At 17, she founded The Longevity Fund (followed by age1), the first VC firm dedicated to longevity biotech, after being selected in the initial cohort of Thiel fellows (2011). Today she is also CEO and co-founder of Cradle, a startup pursuing human whole-body reversible cryopreservation.

I speak with Laura at Cradle’s San Francisco office. We start with the philosophical question of personal identity, and ask a deceptively simple question: what, exactly, do we want to preserve? From there we explore what a “more humane transhumanism” might look like, the game-theory of 200-year lives, scientific awe as a research tool, embodied thought-experiments to see inside the cell, how the FDA could shave years off longevity-drug timelines, the anti-memetic qualities of reversible cryopreservation, and why it might be the most leveraged problem in longevity.

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I share the 8 biggest things I learned from my Australian policy series. The conversations totaled more than 12 hours of discussion.

Grateful to my guests and to everyone who attended the live events. Was really fun to meet and hang out with you all!

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This episode is the seventh instalment of my Australian policy series, recorded live in Sydney on April 29, 2025.

I speak with Ken Henry—former Treasury Secretary and chair of the landmark Henry Tax Review—about why Australia hasn’t achieved major economic reform since the GST, and what must change to restart it.

We discuss how AGI could reshape the public service, intergenerational unfairness in the tax system, the collapse in business investment, how to build a new Australian city, and the roots of Australia's long-standing policy complacency.

Video available here:

Transcript available here:

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