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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl talk with Dr. Will Percy, Executive Vice President at TeamOptix and author of Slaying Zombies: Reimagining Workplace Engagement, about why so many engagement efforts feel busy but ineffective.

Will introduces the idea of “engagement zombies” the outdated beliefs, metrics, and programs that continue to walk around organizations long after they have stopped helping anyone. We explore why happiness and engagement are not the same thing, how toxicity often hides inside “high-performing” cultures, and why leadership behavior, not perks or surveys, ultimately shapes the employee experience.

The conversation digs into how chaos, unclear expectations, and tolerance of the wrong behaviors quietly drain teams, especially in creative and professional service environments. Will also shares how data can be used as a coaching tool rather than a weapon, and what collective leadership actually looks like when it is done well.

This episode is a practical look at how leaders can move beyond surface-level engagement efforts and create environments where people can do their best work without burning out or checking out.

We cover:

• Why happiness is not the same as engagement
• What workplace toxicity looks like beyond extreme examples
• How chaos and lack of clarity become cultural toxins
• Why promotions and tolerance reveal true leadership values
• Using data to support growth instead of surveillance
• What collective leadership looks like in practice

Resources mentioned:

• The Chimp Paradox by Steve Peters
• Zombie Economics: The Dead Ideas Still Walk Among Us by John Quiggin
• Slaying Zombies: Reimagining Workplace Engagement

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

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Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Susan Baier, founder of Audience Audit, to explore how professional service firms can build stronger brands by understanding what their audiences actually believe, not just who they are on paper.

Susan explains why demographics and generic personas often fall short, and how attitudinal research helps firms sharpen their point of view, create more relevant thought leadership, and earn trust over time. We talk about what clients really expect from expertise-led brands, how original research becomes a long-term differentiator, and where AI supports marketing teams versus where it risks flattening credibility.

We cover:
• Why perspective matters more than demographics
• What attitudinal segmentation reveals that personas miss
• How custom research creates defensible differentiation
• What clients actually want from thought leadership
• The role of trust, substance, and experience in brand building
• Where AI helps and where it can quietly erode credibility

Recommended resource:
• Exceptional Experiences podcast by Neen James

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

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In this episode, we talk with Tate Fisher about what it really takes to design service experiences that serve customers, support employees, and work for the business. Tate draws on years of work with multi location and franchise brands to explain why service is always co created and why balance across those three stakeholders matters more than any single tactic.

The conversation hits on how to build predictable systems without stripping out humanity, what frontline teams actually need in order to create meaningful moments, and why real behavior should shape both spaces and processes. Tate also shares what he’s learned from navigating franchisor–franchisee dynamics and the north star that helps both sides stay aligned.

What We Cover:

• The customer–employee–owner framework
• How co creation shows up inside physical service environments
• Designing systems that free people to deliver better experiences
• Lessons from telecom, franchise networks, and student housing
• Where alignment breaks down in multi site brands and how to fix it

Resources Mentioned:

• The Founders podcast

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Tate Fisher and Katalyst Group

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com