Alex has been through the church-plant ringer a few times. These days when I hear him say something like "*My wealth is in my relationships*" it's always startling because I know a little bit about what he's been through and what it has cost him to uncover that idea. Yet today he keeps plugging away, quietly leading a small church in north Seattle in "*Faithful presence*" to God, self, and others, and doing so with his seeming relentless relational energy. His career arc as an author is following the unique path of Fr. Robert Capon: a couple books on Christian living followed by...a cook book (the book he's working on now). He is one of very few evangelical pastors I'm aware of who is willing to wade deep into the racial issues confronting North American evangelicalism without granting conservative political talking points as the default position. Alex believes God speaks to the particulars of life, and that's why he's as at home in a seminary as he is at a George Floyd protest or a kitchen. He doesn't believe sermons are enough to change the world. Not to sound too cheesy, but I wish there were more pastors like Alex.

Did I mention his wife Jana is an amazing photographer? She did all the photography for Halflight. Needless to say, The Early's have had a big impact on this project.

So, when it came to the last song of the album and the final episode of the podcast, it was important to me to have someone who can speak with credibility on the topics of hope and healing. For those of us who have experienced spiritual trauma, where do we go from here? What does healing look like? How do we make sense of where we've been and where to go?

If you're asking those questions, this conversation is for you.

Use the code PODCAST to Get 20% off Halflight vinyl on my bandcamp page.

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When my faith began to unravel, Mike Cosper was one of the people I reached out to. We'd known each other from afar for long enough that I knew he'd have both context and perspective that few people would have. And he did. What I didn't know at the time was that as I shared my story with him, it was in that moment he begun to think "this story needs to be told" and started thinking about making a podcast about it. Specifically the human impacts and effects on the lives of the people who were there. Crazy!

We chat about how I ditched church to write Return My Heart to my Chest, what he saw in the song that made him want to use it in the podcast, and Bruce Springsteen's writing process.

You can listen to the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill anywhere you get your podcasts.