Katherine Ladny Mitchell is a mystery-writer. Not To Be is the first in her Pen and Paintbrush mystery series, in which a writer and a painter, two sisters, work together as amateur sleuths. In this episode, Katherine and Jonathan Rogers talk about the rules of mystery stories, and how they apply to other kinds of storytelling. And they discuss the ways that the habit of art could make artists of all kinds good crime solvers.

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Dr. Grace Hamman is a writer and independent scholar of late medieval poetry and contemplative writing. Her work has been published by academic and popular outlets, including Plough Quarterly and The Journal of Medieval and Early Modern Studies. Her new book is Ask of Old Paths: Medieval Virtues and Vices for a Whole and Holy Life. In this episode, Grace and Jonathan Rogers talk about the virtues and vices, and the ways that virtues present differently in different people. They also talk about unicorns.

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Karen Walrond is the author of The Lightmaker’ Manifesto and Radiant Rebellion. She and her work have been featured on Brené Brown’s Unlocking Us podcast, Huffington Post, CNN.com, and the Oprah Winfrey Show. Her blog Chookooloonks is a lifestyle, inspiration, and photography destination. Karen’s new book is In Defense of Dabbling: The Brilliance of Being a Total Amateur. In this episode, Karen and Jonathan Rogers talk about hobbies, the value of doing things you aren’t very good at, and the seven attributes of intentional amateurism.

This episode is sponsored by The Habit Focus Retreat—a four-day writing getaway in Nashville, October 26-30. TheHabit.co/Retreats.

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.