Most of us assume smart, capable people would spot a cult a mile away.
But for most survivors, it did not look like a cult at first, and by the time it did, leaving no longer felt like a real choice.

On this episode of The Gaslight Effect Podcast, Dr. Robin Stern sits down with Dr. Natalie Fabert, a psychologist, faculty member at Arizona State University, and board member and Director of Continuing Education at the Lalich Center on Cults and Coercion. Dr. Fabert specializes in helping adults heal from trauma, abuse, and coercive control, especially in cultic and spiritually abusive environments.

Drawing on her clinical work and her role with the Lalich Center's training course for therapists, she and Robin explore how gaslighting operates not only in intimate relationships, but also in high-control groups and "cult-like" systems where unquestioned loyalty and obedience are expected.

Together, they unpack:

• How gaslighting and coercive control show up in cults, spiritual communities, and other high-demand groups

• Why thoughtful, intelligent, hardworking people can be drawn into abusive systems—and why "just leaving" is far more complicated than it sounds

• The overlapping dynamics of narcissistic abuse, coercive control, and cult involvement

• The particular challenges cult survivors face after leaving, including grief, identity loss, and complex trauma

• Why therapists need to approach survivors with cultural humility and strong boundaries—and how trainings like the Lalich Center's course can help them do that more safely

This episode speaks directly to the question, "Why didn't they just leave?" Robin and Natalie offer language, validation, and hope—for survivors, for their supporters, and for the therapists who want to walk alongside them as they reclaim their reality and rebuild their lives.

To check out this and other episodes, head over to robinstern.com.

Don't forget to subscribe to The Gaslight Effect Podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and be sure to leave us a review to let us know what you think. Until next time, remember: healing is a journey, and you don't have to walk it alone.

Dr. Robin Stern's Social Media Links:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drrobinstern/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.robinstern/

Twitter (X) - https://twitter.com/RobinSStern

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-stern-220b403a

Dr. Robin Stern's Books:

The Gaslight Effect

The Gaslight Effect Recovery Guide

Emotional Intelligence for School Leaders

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed on The Gaslight Effect Podcast do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

In this episode of The Gaslight Effect Podcast, Dr. Robin Stern welcomes Dr. Helen Riess, Harvard Medical School psychiatrist, empathy researcher, and author of The Empathy Effect.

Together, they explore how empathy—often considered an emotional instinct—is actually a learnable, science-based skill that can transform how we connect, communicate, and lead.

As the Founder and Chief Medical Officer of Empathetics, Dr. Riess has spent her career studying the neuroscience of empathy and translating those findings into practical tools for healthcare, education, business, and leadership. Her pioneering EMPATHY® training program, tested in randomized controlled trials at Massachusetts General Hospital, has been proven to enhance patient-doctor relationships, reduce burnout, and improve outcomes across organizations.

Dr. Riess and Dr. Stern discuss how empathy is evolving in today's interconnected world—where compassion and understanding are more vital than ever. They explore how cultivating empathy can help us bridge divides, reduce dehumanization, and foster emotional intelligence in every sphere of life, from intimate relationships to global leadership.

Listeners will learn how to:

• Apply empathy as a daily practice at work, at home, and in leadership

• Recognize and counteract dehumanization and scapegoating

• Strengthen emotional connection in high-stress or polarized environments

• Build cultures of compassion that promote well-being and trust

• How misuse can be lead to empathy being weaponized

Dr. Riess's work has earned numerous awards, including the Partners HealthCare Medical Education Research Award and recognition from the Arnold P. Gold Foundation for Humanism in Medicine. She is also a core member of the Consortium for Research on Emotional Intelligence in Organizations, helping to shape the future of emotionally intelligent leadership.

As Dr. Riess reminds us, "Nourishing empathy lets us help not just ourselves, but everyone we interact with—whether for a moment or a lifetime."

To check out this and other episodes, head over to robinstern.com.

Don't forget to subscribe to The Gaslight Effect Podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and be sure to leave us a review to let us know what you think. Until next time, remember: healing is a journey, and you don't have to walk it alone.

Dr. Robin Stern's Social Media Links:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drrobinstern/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.robinstern/

Twitter (X) - https://twitter.com/RobinSStern

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-stern-220b403a

Dr. Robin Stern's Books:

The Gaslight Effect

The Gaslight Effect Recovery Guide

Emotional Intelligence for School Leaders

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed on The Gaslight Effect Podcast do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

In this episode of The Gaslight Effect Podcast, Dr. Robin Stern sits down with award-winning journalist, divorce coach, and advocate Amy Polacko, co-author of Framed: Women in the Family Court Underworld.

Together, they explore how gaslighting and coercive control extend far beyond personal relationships—and into the legal systems meant to protect survivors.

Amy shares her own journey through divorce and the family court system, offering a rare insider's perspective on how abusers weaponize the courts to maintain control. From financial gaslighting and emergency custody motions to the misuse of mental health records, Amy and Robin expose the systemic biases and misogynistic tropes that often paint women as "hysterical" or "vengeful."

The conversation also empowers listeners with concrete strategies for navigating these challenges. Amy outlines steps women can take before filing for divorce—such as building a support team, documenting evidence, and creating a financial plan—and stresses the importance of working with attorneys who truly understand coercive control.

Listeners will gain insight into how to rebuild self-trust after gaslighting, how to protect themselves emotionally and legally, and why reforms like Kayden's Law are critical to safeguarding children and survivors.

Key Takeaways:

How gaslighting and coercive control play out in family court.

The importance of silent preparation and strategic planning before divorce.

Why choosing the right attorney can make all the difference.

Practical steps for documenting abuse and protecting finances.

How to begin trusting your instincts again after manipulation.

Resources Mentioned:

Framed: Women in the Family Court Underworld by Amy Polacko and colleagues

Divorce Decoded digital course by Amy Polacko

Freedom Warrior Coaching and support groups for survivors

Tune in for an essential conversation that sheds light on a hidden crisis—and offers a roadmap for recovery, empowerment, and change.

To check out this and other episodes, head over to robinstern.com.

Don't forget to subscribe to The Gaslight Effect Podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and be sure to leave us a review to let us know what you think. Until next time, remember: healing is a journey, and you don't have to walk it alone.

Dr. Robin Stern's Social Media Links:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drrobinstern/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.robinstern/

Twitter (X) - https://twitter.com/RobinSStern

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-stern-220b403a

Dr. Robin Stern's Books:

The Gaslight Effect

The Gaslight Effect Recovery Guide

Emotional Intelligence for School Leaders

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed on The Gaslight Effect Podcast do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast. Any content provided by our guests, bloggers, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.