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The Ethically Immoral Podcast

The Ethically Immoral Podcast

By: Hosted by: Mike Payne
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About this listen

The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.


It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.

© 2025 The Ethically Immoral Podcast
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Episodes
  • Volume Six: Chapter Twelve - Our Conversation with Melissa Powless Day
    Nov 17 2025

    In Volume Six: Chapter Twelve of the Program, we welcome Melissa Powless Day — a London, Ontario–based educator, writer, poet, and author. She serves as Chair for Western University’s Indigenous Writers Circle, is a Visiting Cultural Teacher for the London District Catholic School Board, and is currently completing her PhD in Indigenous Education at Western University. A Pushcart Prize nominee, she’s the author of the 2023 chapbook Secondhand Moccasins — shortlisted for the bpNichol Chapbook Award — and her debut full-length poetry collection, A Bow Forged From Ash, released through Palimpsest Press.

    In our conversation, Melissa reflects on the past few months of sharing her new collection with readers and communities across Canada, and what this season has meant for her as a creative. We discuss her reclamation journey and the importance of lineage — from the influence of her mother and grandmother, to the deeper meaning of pride in being a proud Indigenous woman. She shares how her sense of heritage began to shape her voice as a writer, the role music played in her artistic growth, and how ’90s artists like Mary J. Blige, Brandy, and Tupac Shakur helped her see parallels between Indigenous and African-American experiences through art and storytelling.

    We also talk about community, identity, and transformation — from her experiences in gaming and creative technology to the deliberate and deeply personal process of creating A Bow Forged From Ash. Melissa opens up about her writing process, the emotional high of publication, and the lessons learned from navigating both the joy and the business of bringing her work into the world. Finally, she discusses the reclamation of her name, the legacy of the Sixties Scoop, and how her creative work continues to be a powerful act of rewriting, healing, and self-discovery.

    Contact Melissa:
    Instagram:
    @mel_schnarr

    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

    Ajanae Dawkins – Forthe Bolnds Girl and the Classroom of Ghosts
    Instagram: @moonsatdusk Website: ajanaedawkins.com

    Ephraim Nehemiah – Afrofuturistic Fairy God Being
    Instagram: @ephraimnehemiah

    Ayana Albertson – Her Rights
    Instagram: @untouchableyann

    Crystal Valentine – Black Privilege
    Instagram: @crystalvalentine94 Website: iamcrystalvalentine.com

    Matt Capone – Learned with Love
    Instagram: @matt__capone

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    1 hr and 58 mins
  • Volume Six: Chapter Eleven - Our Conversation With Gary Barwin
    Oct 13 2025

    In Volume Six: Chapter Eleven of The Program, we welcome a Hamilton, Ontario–based educator, writer, poet, essayist, composer, and musician Gary Barwin. With a BFA and BA from York University and a PhD in Music Composition from SUNY Buffalo, Barwin has built a career that refuses to stay in one lane. He’s the author of more than thirty books and chapbooks—including Yiddish for Pirates, winner of the 2017 Stephen Leacock Medal for Humour and the Canadian Jewish Literary Award for Fiction, and shortlisted for both the Scotiabank Giller Prize and the Governor General’s Award. His newest collaboration, Muttertongue—co-authored with Toronto Poet Laureate Lillian Allen and friend of the podcast Gregory Betts—is a bold fusion of both poetry and sound.

    In our conversation, Gary and I trace the through-lines of a life shaped by movement, music, and story. We talk about his family’s journey—from Lithuania to South Africa, through Northern Ireland, and finally to Canada—and how those histories reflects through his creative work. We discuss his grandfather’s influence, the man who first took him seriously as a writer, and the way family narratives—of exile, resilience, and humor—continue to surface in his art.

    We also explore Hamilton’s quiet but powerful role in his creative life, how writing and music speak the same emotional language, and why he believes creativity isn’t something that fades—it deepens. Gary discusses the leap from poetry to prose when writing Yiddish for Pirates, what that process taught him about discipline and discovery, and what it felt like to have that debut novel embraced so widely after decades of writing poetry and composing music.

    Finally, we dig into Muttertongue—how the collaboration with Allen and Betts came together, what it means to work at the intersection of sound, text, and visual poetry, and how they hope audiences experience the project as both a book and an album.

    Contact Gary
    Website:
    garybarwin.com Instagram: @garybarwin

    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

    King Yaw – Poetry Service
    Instagram: @kingyaw_

    Terisa Siagatonu Note To Self
    Instagram: @terisasiagatonu Website: terisasiagatonu.com

    Gabrielle Smith – Black Bird
    Instagram: @bygabriellesmith

    Nelle Divine – Dont Fall In Love With A Healer
    Instagram: @iamnelledivine

    AkeemJamaal Rollins – Suicide Note
    Instagram: @keemyjam

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    2 hrs and 26 mins
  • Volume Six: Chapter Ten - Our Conversation with Isabella DeSendi
    Oct 6 2025

    In Volume Six, Chapter Ten we welcomed Hoboken, New Jersey–based educator, poet, writer, and author Isabella DeSendi.

    A 2024 Pushcart Prize nominee, 2024 Ruth Lilly Fellowship finalist, 2024 Best New Poets selection, and 2025 New Jersey Fellowship finalist, Isabella earned her MFA from Columbia University. Her 2020 chapbook Through the New Body won the Poetry Society of America’s Chapbook Fellowship, and her debut full-length collection Someone Else’s Hunger was released September 15th via Four Way Books.

    In our conversation, Isabella talks about what it’s been like to live inside the excitement and vulnerability of releasing her first book while touring, and how she navigates the tension between Isabella the writer and Bella the person. We discuss how her understanding of voice, fear, and visibility evolved between Through the New Body and Someone Else’s Hunger, and how she has learned to “call a monster by his name” through the act of writing.

    Isabella shares how her family’s stories — her mother’s, her abuela’s — shaped her voice and sense of resilience, and how iconic figures like Eve, Mary, and Medusa stand beside those familial presences in her poems. We talk about the slow, deliberate process that shapes her work, how hunger became both the literal and spiritual thread uniting her collection, and what it means to transform pain into power — to turn the very wound that could have destroyed you into a source of strength.

    We also discuss anger’s rightful place in poetry and the complicated beauty of reclamation.

    Contact Isabella:
    Website:
    isabelladesendi.com Instagram: @isabellamdesendi

    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

    Ifrah Hussein – Tell Us
    Instagram: @ifrahhussein

    Lyrical Faith – Black Boy Joy
    Instagram: @lyricalfaithpoetry

    Masterpiece Poet – Slingshot
    Instagram: @masterpiecepoetry Website: masterpiecepoetry.com

    Rick Dove – A Poetic Conceit
    Instagram: @rickdove Website: rickdove.co.uk

    Lionheart– Pretty Hurts
    Instagram: @lionheartfelt Website: lionheartonline.com


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    1 hr and 13 mins
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