Our guest this week is a Scotland, United Kingdom–based writer, poet, playwright, and author. Kestral Gaian, who is the author of four books, including their most recent poetry collection, Tubelines: The Poetry of Motion, available now via their website and wherever books are sold.

In our conversation, we trace Kestral’s parallel paths through creativity and technology — including a lengthy career in software and tech — and how those two worlds increasingly collide. That collision leads us into a thoughtful discussion of artificial intelligence, creative labor, and authorship, sparked by Kestral’s project justsayno.ai. We talk candidly about over-reliance on AI, creative disruption, and the growing concern that AI may help people produce writing without necessarily helping them become writers.

From there, we move into Kestral’s creative history: starting to write at the age of five, transitioning from storytelling into poetry, and grappling early on with questions of identity and representation. Growing up under the shadow of the UK’s Section 28 — legislation that erased queer stories from schools and libraries — profoundly shaped what felt possible to write. We talk about silence, visibility, and the long-term effects of being told certain stories shouldn’t exist.

The conversation then turns to Tubelines, a poetry collection written over five years and inspired by fifty encounters on the London Underground. We talk about people-watching, movement, routine, and the quiet humanity that reveals itself in shared spaces.

Contact Kestral:
Instagram: @kes.tr.al Website: kestr.al

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

Toni Payne – Let the Headline Scream
Instagram: @tonipaynequotes Website: tonipayneonline.com

Meccamorphosis – Thrift Shop
Instagram: @meccamorphosis Website: meccamorphosis.com

Asia Samson – As I Am
Instagram: @theasiaproject Website: theasiaproject.com

Christopher Diaz: Again
Instagram: @lightbulbchris Website: christopherdiazcreates.com

Matthew Cuban: Shotgun
Instagram: @matthewcuban Website: matthewcuban.com

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In Volume Six: Chapter Sixteen of The Program, we welcome Poet, Actor, Producer, Playwright, and Author of the new book Hair Me, Leslie Saint Julien. Making her third appearance on the podcast, Leslie returns to discuss the evolution of her personal and powerful stage project Hair Me: A Journey Through the Rich Tapestry of Black Hair and the book of the same name.

In this wide-ranging and honest conversation, Leslie shares how 2025 became a transformative year after a period of burnout and creative exhaustion, and what she’s learned about rest, resilience, and intention. We explore her journey from writing an award-winning poem to developing it into a one-woman stage play, complete with a companion book, script, and educational study guide designed for classrooms.

She opens up about the pressures Black women face when it comes to hair — not just in terms of aesthetics, but as a matter of survival, self-expression, and social perception. We dig into the emotional and cultural weight of “code-switching” one’s hairstyle, the complexity of navigating critique, and the behind-the-scenes work required to bring a theatrical vision to life.

Leslie is also the author of Brooklyn Stew and three poetry collections. A graduate of the University of Maryland with a degree in Criminology and Criminal Justice, she later studied acting at the New York Film Academy.

Contact Barbara:
Instagram: @lesliesainjulien Website: lesliesaintjulien.com

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

Destiny Birdsong – Killing White
Instagram: @bird_songoftheyear Website: destintbirdsong.com

Destiny Birdsong – Mythicona
Instagram: @bird_songoftheyear Website: destinybirdsong.com

Ray Jane – Spoils
Instagram: @itsrayjane Website: itsrayjane.com

Summer Durant: Same
Instagram: @summeraen

Ghetto Jedi the Poet: Strap Up

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In Volume Six: Chapter Fifteen of The Program, we welcome Youngstown, Ohio-born, Los Angeles-based educator, community activist, writer, poet, performance poet, and author Barbara Fant.

Barbara is the author of three poetry collections — Paint, Inside Out, Mouths of Garden, and her newest release, Joy in the Belly of a Riot. For more than a decade, she has led poetry workshops for incarcerated youth and adults, people in recovery, and survivors of human trafficking and domestic violence, using poetry as a tool for healing, survival, and connection.

Contact Barbara:
Instagram: @iambarbarafant Website: barbarafant.com

Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

Sunshine Lombre – Daydream
Instagram: @ladylombre

Tonya Ingram – Monster
Instagram: @tonyainstagram

Theresa Davis – Why I Do This
Instagram: @shepiratepoet Website: artisttheresadavis.com

Barbara Fant: Brown Bodies Bending
Instagram: @iambarbarafant Website: barbarafant.com

Barbara Fant: Medicine
Instagram: @iambarbarafant Website: barbarafant.com

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