Roughly a year ago, a team at The New York Times Magazine set about tackling a nearly impossible task: creating a list of the greatest living American songwriters. But how to take the tens of thousands of songwriters working in this country and narrow them down to a digestible list? The answer involved thousands of voting ballots, hundreds of music industry insiders and a series of closed-door meetings among a small group of music experts. The result, The Times’s list of the 30 greatest living American songwriters, was published this week.

Today, Michael Barbaro talks with Sasha Weiss, a deputy editor of The Times Magazine, who oversaw the project, as well as Joe Coscarelli and Jody Rosen, two members of the cadre of critics assigned with compiling the final list. They discuss the list-making process, what defines a great songwriter and why Billy Joel didn’t make the final cut.

We also hear from some of the songwriters featured on the list, including Taylor Swift, Nile Rodgers and the songwriting team of Brandy Clark, Shane McAnally and Josh Osborne.

On Today's Episode:

Sasha Weiss is a deputy editor of The New York Times Magazine.

Joe Coscarelli is a culture reporter for The Times. He is a co-host of “Popcast,” a producer of the “Song of the Week” video series and the author of “Rap Capital: An Atlanta Story.”

Jody Rosen is a contributing writer for the magazine and the author of “Two Wheels Good: The History and Mystery of the Bicycle.”

Background Reading:

The 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

Cast Your Vote for the Greatest Living American Songwriters

Photo credit: Stefan Ruiz for The New York Times

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The conservative media commentator split with the administration over the war in Iran. Will the breakup last?

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Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, went before Congress to answer for a war in Iran that has reached a stalemate and a management style that has caused controversy at the Pentagon.

Eric Schmitt, a national security correspondent, takes us inside Mr. Hegseth’s testimony.

Guest: Eric Schmitt, a national security correspondent for The New York Times in Washington.

Background reading:

• Read takeaways from Mr. Hegseth’s second day of testimony on the Iran war.

Photo: Anna Rose Layden for The New York Times

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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