“We start to become a problem in this world when we start to exceed other people's expectations of us.” – Gill Whitty-Collins, Author & Gender Equality Expert

I’ve really started to struggle with the term unconscious bias… is saying that there’s an unconscious bias, a loophole?” – Jo Phillips, The Woman Behind The Women

In this episode of The Chat Womb, Jo Phillips is joined by Gill Whitty-Collins, senior business leader, gender equality expert, and author of Why Men Win at Work, to break down the hidden forces that keep men in power and women fighting for space.

Gill reveals why gender inequality isn’t about competence, but about perception, and how deeply ingrained paternalistic mindsets create barriers for women in leadership. She and Jo explore the unconscious biases that shape decision-making, the “daughter phenomenon” in male allyship, and why men need to shift from protectors to partners in the fight for equality.

If you’ve ever wondered why men are still winning at work—and what we can do about it—this episode is a must-listen.

(02:10) – Introducing Gill Whitty-Collins: Author of Why Men Win at Work

(05:00) – Why do men really win at work? Gill breaks it down

(07:15) – Invisible forces at play: The unconscious barriers women face

(12:30) – Does unconscious bias still hold up? The real reason it hasn’t worked

(20:10) – When women enter the “dominant culture” and the game changes

(25:00) – The "daughter phenomenon”—why men support women until they become equals

(30:45) – Moving from paternalism to true male allyship

(35:20) – Gill’s message to men in leadership: “You are not their dad. You are their colleague.”

Gill Whitty-Collins is an author, consultant, and gender equality advocate with over 20 years of experience as a senior leader in the corporate world. After a successful career at Procter & Gamble, where she led global brands like Olay, Always, and Pantene, Gill turned her attention to tackling the structural and cultural barriers holding women back in business.

Her book, Why Men Win at Work, has been described as a must-read for anyone serious about gender equality. Through her keynote talks, executive coaching, and workshops, Gill helps organisations identify the invisible forces that keep women from leadership and take real action to drive change.

🔗 Follow Gill on LinkedIn / Instagram @gillwhittycollins

📖 Buy Why Men Win at Work

🌍 Visit Gill’s Website https://gillwhittycollins.com/

About your host: Jo Phillips

Jo coaches ambitious...

“Be nice, be kind, share, smile, try to be as pretty as possible and don’t possibly age... This is how we’ve been trained.” – Michelle Minnikin, Psychologist & Author

"When did ‘nice’ ever get us a pay rise?" – Jo Phillips, The Woman Behind The Women

In this episode of The Chat Womb, Jo Phillips is joined by Michelle Minnikin, psychologist, coach, and author of Good Girl Deprogramming, to dismantle the covert rules and expectations that keep women small.

From childhood, women are conditioned to be agreeable, seek approval, and play by the rules, but where does that leave us? Michelle breaks down how society’s invisible coercive control keeps women in line, why so many women feel stuck in their careers, and—most importantly—how to break free from the ‘Good Girl’ mould and reclaim your power.

If you’ve ever felt pressured to play nice, stay quiet, or make yourself smaller, this episode is for you.

(02:10) – Introducing Michelle Minnikin: Psychologist, coach & author of Good Girl Deprogramming

(05:00) – The cult of ‘Good Girl Conditioning’—how women are programmed to comply

(07:15) – What society really teaches women: Approval = Worth

(12:30) – The workplace was built for men—how women lose confidence when they enter it (20:10) – The self-worth crisis: Why women lose belief in their own success

(25:00) – How to find your tribe and build a support system that lifts you up

(30:45) – The #1 thing every woman needs to unlearn: Being ‘nice’

(35:20) – Michelle’s advice to her younger self: Be less nice. You don’t need to be liked to succeed.

Michelle Minnikin is a psychologist, coach, and author of Good Girl Deprogramming. With a background in organisational psychology, Michelle helps women unlearn the societal expectations that hold them back and rebuild their confidence, boundaries, and self-worth.

Her work shines a light on how women are conditioned to comply from childhood, why so many feel stuck in their careers, and how to break free from the ‘Good Girl’ narrative to claim the success and freedom they deserve.

🔗 Follow Michelle on Instagram: @michelleminnikin / Visit her website: https://www.michelleminnikin.com/

About your host: Jo Phillips

Jo coaches ambitious women like you to break through career barriers, own their worth, and finally get the career and salary they deserve. Through 1:1 coaching, Jo helps you identify what’s holding you back, to build an unapologetic strategy for success, cheerleading you every step of the way—because you already have what it takes. It’s time to stop waiting and start moving with audacity…

Connect with Jo:

Website: The Woman Behind The Women

Socials: Linkedin / Instagram: @thewomanbehindthewomen

'The Chat Womb' is hosted by Jo Phillips and proudly produced by Decibelle Creative: @decibelle_creative...

“We are so aware from such a young age that it might happen and that it could happen… As women, we’re just so normalised into hyper-vigilance constantly.” - Caitlin O’Ryan, Actor, Podcaster & Poet

"This has got nothing to do with saying that every male causes danger. But it’s about, from a societal perspective, understanding … [that] these are just some of the considerations we navigate every single day before we go about our lives." - Jo Phillips, The Woman Behind The Women

Taking a seat in The Chat Womb with Jo Phillips today is Caitlin O’Ryan - actor, poet, and podcaster - to discuss the hidden costs of simply existing as a woman.

Caitlin shares the story behind her viral spoken-word poem At What Point, which reached millions online, shedding light on the constant state of hyper-vigilance women live with daily. From assessing risks when walking alone at night to altering schedules, paying for safety, and feeling the weight of social expectations, they explore the gendered realities that shape female experiences.

(02:10) – Introducing Caitlin O’Ryan: Actor, poet, and the woman behind At What Point

(05:00) – The viral poem that struck a chord with millions

(07:15) – The unseen cost of being a woman: Hyper-vigilance as second nature

(12:30) – The paradox of women’s safety: Taxi vs. Walking Home Alone

(15:45) – The fine line between politeness and self-preservation

(20:10) – How women are conditioned to shrink themselves for others' comfort

(25:00) – Caitlin on imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and the power of authenticity

(30:45) – Finding freedom in creativity and reclaiming childhood curiosity

(35:20) – Caitlin’s advice to her younger self: Stay weird, stay loud, stay you.

Caitlin O’Ryan is an actor, poet, and podcaster. Best known for her role as Lizzie Wemyss in Outlander, Caitlin has captivated audiences with her heartfelt performances. However, it was her viral poem At What Point that propelled her into the public eye in a new and powerful way.

Originally performed as a spoken word piece, At What Point struck a chord with audiences worldwide, addressing themes of womanhood, societal expectations, and the female experience with raw honesty...