As platforms push Performance Max, Advantage+ and new modelling systems, we’re entering a world where results often look better in-platform than they do in reality. Behind the scenes, attribution is becoming harder and marketers are being forced to rethink how they interpret success altogether.

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Paid Media Manager, Adrian Oguz, to unpack what truly matters when you’re running paid media in an AI-driven landscape. Adrian shares an unfiltered view on automation, performance loops, the limits of attribution and how in-house marketers can step back and measure what actually drives growth, and not just what looks good on a dashboard.

• Why AI-driven campaign types often optimise toward the easiest conversions, not the most valuable ones
• How to recognise when Performance Max has fallen into the “existing customer loop”
• The hidden risks of lead-gen automation and why spam leads often spike before performance improves
• The simple macro metrics that reveal whether your media is genuinely growing the business
• How channels like YouTube can drive huge results without showing any conversions in-platform
• Why creative is becoming the new targeting, especially inside Meta’s evolving ecosystem
• How to design tests that prove whether a channel is actually contributing to growth
• When it’s time to scale spend, and when stability matters more than chasing the next tactic

Adrian Oguz is a Paid Media Manager at Rocket Agency, overseeing multi-million-dollar budgets across search, social and programmatic. With his clear, practical approach, he’s led multiple award-winning campaigns for various business types and industries across the APAC Search Awards and SEMrush Awards year after year.

You can follow Adrian on LinkedIn.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Marketers have long optimised for visibility and memory, but in our metric-focused industry, are we measuring what really matters?

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence speaks with Dr. Karen Nelson-Field, Founder of Amplified, about why attention is the real currency of modern advertising and how to measure it effectively. From the myth of virality to the flaws in CPMs, Karen shares what years of research reveal about how people truly engage with ads, and what marketers need to do next to stay ahead.

• Dr. Karen’s journey: from academic researcher to founder, shaping the global conversation on attention measurement
• Why traditional metrics like reach, impressions and engagement fail to capture real ad effectiveness
• How attention measurement works and why it’s revolutionising media planning and buying
• The difference between active, passive and non-attention, and how they impact ROI
• Why CPM should stand for “Cost per Meaningless Thousand”
• How creative and media need to work together for attention to truly convert
• Why cheaper ad formats often deliver worse ROI than expected
• The role of AI and synthetic audiences in scaling attention measurement
• The future: the unification of creative and media through AI-driven tools

Additional resource: The Eye-Watering Cost of Dull Media

Dr. Karen Nelson-Field is a globally recognised researcher and entrepreneur reshaping how marketers think about effectiveness. As the Founder and CEO of Amplified, she leads pioneering work in attention measurement across platforms and formats. A former academic turned industry innovator, Karen’s research has influenced how the world’s biggest brands evaluate advertising performance.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

As 2025 comes to a close, the conversation around in-housing has never been more confusing. With rising pressures on budgets and the disruption caused by AI, businesses are being forced to rethink what the right marketing structure might look like for them.

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence speaks with Darren Woolley, Founder and Global CEO of Australia’s leading marketing management consultancy TrinityP3. Together they unpack the myths surrounding in-housing and outsourcing, and what research really says about cost, culture, productivity and creativity.

• Why “in-housing vs. agency” is the wrong question to ask and what the right balance looks like
• The hidden costs that make many in-house teams more expensive than expected
• How in-house agencies can fall into creative myopia and how to bring external stimulus back in
• Why AI is more than just efficiency: accountability, smarter decision-making, strategic advantage and more
• The three challenges keeping marketers up at night: tighter budgets, proving ROI and keeping pace with change
• How agencies remain indispensable by offering perspective and speed that internal teams can’t easily replicate

Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.

You can follow Darren on LinkedIn.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.