How do you market an ‘unglamorous’ business where your category doesn’t sell itself? And what does it take to build a brand that people trust and remember when your offering is not something buyers get excited about?

Host James Lawrence sits down with Lisa Macqueen, CEO of Cleancorp, to unpack how she’s built one of Australia’s most respected service brands in one of the most commoditised categories there is - commercial cleaning. From personal branding and LinkedIn content that genuinely resonates, to building trust at scale through culture and customer experience, this conversation is a masterclass in doing the fundamentals exceptionally well.

1. How to build brand influence in a “boring” industry where buyers see the service as a grudge purchase
2. Why founder-led LinkedIn content can become one of the most effective marketing channels in B2B
3. What happens when you deliberately position your brand differently from the rest of your category
4. Why putting people at the centre of your marketing can strengthen both culture and client relationships
5. The role authenticity plays in building trust with prospects before a sales conversation even begins
6. How modern buyers research suppliers before they ever contact a company
7. Why curiosity and experimentation are becoming essential traits for marketers in a fast-changing landscape

Lisa Macqueen is the CEO of Cleancorp, a national commercial cleaning business servicing some of Australia’s most recognisable brands. With a background in sales and marketing across global hotel and resort businesses, Lisa brought a fundamentally different mindset into an industry long defined by commoditisation.

Under her leadership, Cleancorp has grown into a people-first, values-led organisation, earning B Corp certification, national recognition as one of Australia’s best places to work and a reputation for doing things differently. Lisa is also a LinkedIn Top Voice, using her personal platform to share candid insights on building meaningful brands in unexpected places.

You can follow Lisa on LinkedIn.

1. James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
2. Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
3. Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
4. Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

1. Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
2. Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

If most B2B buyers already know who they’re going to choose before they even speak to sales, what does that mean for your B2B marketing strategy?

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence sits down with Stuart Jaffray, Managing Director of Green Hat, to unpack the latest findings from the APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report. With data from over 800 buyers across the region, the message is clear: the rhythm of B2B buying has changed under the current economic and technological conditions.

Read Green Hat’s report: The APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report 2025

1. What happens before a buyer speaks to sales, and why that’s where most decisions are actually made
2. Why “demand generation” might really just be demand capture
3. The changes in buying group size and timing, and what’s driving it
4. How AI is accelerating first contact, even as buyers try to self-serve
5. What a Millennial and Gen Z-led buying committee expects from your content
6. Why ungating content is uncomfortable but increasingly necessary
7. The one metric revenue teams should prioritise over MQLs

Stuart Jaffray is the Managing Director of Green Hat, a specialist B2B marketing agency operating across the APAC region. He’s spent his career working at the intersection of brand, demand and revenue, helping complex organisations align marketing and sales around how buying decisions actually get made. Previously he has steered strategy and growth at global advertising giant Starcom and shaped premium brand experiences at BMW Australia, bringing a deep understanding of customer behaviour, brand positioning and commercial impact.

With this blend of big-brand marketing and agency-led demand acceleration, Stuart brings a commercial and strategic lens to B2B growth.

You can follow Stuart on LinkedIn.

1. James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
2. Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
3. Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
4. Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

1. Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
2. Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with Alex Hayes, Founder of Clear Hayes, to unpack what it really means to market to marketers. From building Clear Hayes House at SXSW Sydney to launching award-winning branded content for global platforms, Alex shares hard-earned lessons from both sides of the fence; as a former editor of B&T and Mumbrella, and now as a global B2B communications specialist.

1. Why “don’t be boring” is more than a tagline in B2B
2. Are we overcomplicating marketing when simplification might be the real edge?
3. How brand and performance work together, and why future demand matters
4. What marketers need to do to reposition themselves inside the C-suite
5. Why upskilling in fundamentals is becoming a non-negotiable

Alex Hayes is the Founder of Clear Hayes, a B2B communications agency specialising in marketing to marketers. Before launching the agency, Alex was Editor of both B&T and Mumbrella, where he covered some of the industry’s biggest stories and built a deep understanding of the people behind the platforms.

Today, Clear Hayes works with clients across Australia, New Zealand, the UK, the US and Europe, helping brands connect with marketers in ways that are engaging and strategically sharp. Alex brings a rare perspective shaped by journalism, global industry exposure and years spent helping marketing brands cut through in a crowded, often self-referential category.

You can follow Alex on LinkedIn.

1. James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
2. Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
3. Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
4. Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

1. Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
2. Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.