Episodes

  • Ethical marketing meets ethical selling

    Ethical marketing meets ethical selling
    Feb 5 2026

    In this episode, Fred is joined by Chelsea Burns - marketing psychologist, brand ethicist, and non-manipulative marketer to explore where ethical marketing and ethical selling overlap… and where they can go wrong.

    Chelsea introduces a practical way to draw the line between persuasion and manipulation: Agency - a person's genuine ability to choose. From there, the conversation goes deep into real-world examples of questionable tactics, why "FOMO" can backfire, and how the brain evaluates purchases immediately after the transaction.

    Chelsea also shares her four pillars of ethical branding - consent, reciprocity, trust, and belonging and explains how relational psychology can turn ethics from "debating club theory" into day-to-day, tactical decisions that build long-term relationships (and better business).

    Fred rounds things out with sales parallels like transparency selling, "lead with a flaw," and a brilliant ethics conundrum involving goats, segmentation… and B1G1.

    What You'll Learn

    • Why ethical persuasion is possible and why "all marketing is manipulation" isn't true
    • The ethical line: agency and a customer's ability to choose
    • A real example of manipulative tactics (and how they show up in launches)
    • Chelsea's four pillars of ethical branding:
      • Consent
      • Reciprocity
      • Trust
      • Belonging
    • Why manufactured urgency and "never-ending discounts" blur ethical consent
    • How FOMO can turn into FOMU (fear of messing up) and increase buyer anxiety
    • Why buyers judge value immediately after purchase and how negative emotion backfires
    • The "transformation arc" in marketing and selling: current state → desired state → bridge
    • Why implementation is what people pay for (not just information)
    • A practical ethics test: transparency + intent + consent + follow-through

    If you want marketing and selling that drives results without crossing ethical lines, this episode will give you a clear framework and a few things you may never unsee again.

    And if you've ever wondered whether a tactic "works" but feels a bit… off ,Chelsea's agency test is a great place to start.

    Connect with Chelsea

    · LinkedIn: Chelsea Burns: linkedin.com/in/chelseaburns26

    · Website: https://www.the-marketing-psychologist.com/

    Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake

    Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/2CHGDwCMtpc

    Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers

    Useful resources

    • Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free
      Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/
    Show More Show Less
    44 mins
  • Is 'good enough' good enough?

    Is 'good enough' good enough?
    Jan 22 2026
    In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by sales thought leader, author, and one of the kindest people in the profession, David Brock. Together, they explore David's new book "Is Good Enough, Good Enough?" and why it's not another "do this, do that" sales methodology book. Instead, it focuses on the mindsets and behaviours that separate high performers from those who are simply checking the boxes. With win rates often accepted at 15–20% in many SaaS environments, David challenges the idea that "making the number" should be the benchmark. The conversation asks a bigger question: what becomes possible when we stop settling for good enough? In this episode, they explore: Why David wrote Is Good Enough, Good Enough? and what triggered his frustration The hidden cost of "acceptable" win rates and how much time teams spend losing Why sales improvement isn't just about tools, process, tech, or methodology What really separates high performers: mindsets and behaviours Why customer centricity is still misunderstood (and often too seller-focused) How to build trust by leading with what the customer cares about - not your product Why buyers increasingly want rep-free journeys (and what that really means) How questioning needs to evolve from "agenda-driven" to "sense-making" The role of curiosity and continuous learning in modern, complex sales How insight works in the real world - and why it doesn't need to be revolutionary AI as an amplifier: how it boosts good thinking (and scales bad thinking fast) Why curiosity may be the most important starting point for sellers and leaders Key insight The biggest performance gap in sales isn't caused by a lack of methodology. It's caused by settling. When salespeople stop being curious, stop learning, and start focusing on themselves instead of the customer, "good enough" becomes the standard - even when far better is possible. Practical takeaways Lead with the customer's world, not your product story Ask questions to understand, not to "set up" your pitch Use insights to start conversations - you don't have to be perfect, just thoughtful Let AI support deeper research and better preparation, not lazy automation Build your foundation: curiosity, customer focus, discipline, accountability, and care About David Brock David Brock is a respected sales leader, writer, and author of Sales Manager Survival Guide and Is Good Enough, Good Enough? His work focuses on helping sales professionals and leaders perform at a higher level by strengthening the behaviours and thinking that drive real results. Where to find David Brock LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davebrock Blog: https://partnersinexcellenceblog.com/ Book: Is Good Enough, Good Enough? available on Amazon - https://a.co/d/8qcWKx9 Connect with Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Free resources Collaborative Selling Scorecard Check how your sales approach fits today's environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/ Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Watch this episode on YouTube
    Show More Show Less
    39 mins
  • The secret to faster training and coaching result

    The secret to faster training and coaching result
    Jan 22 2026

    In this episode, Fred is joined by John Richardson, Co-Founder and Director of Coaching at My Sales Coach, to explore a key question: how do you get faster, more meaningful results from training and coaching?

    Their answer is simple but powerful: start with the right assessment.

    They unpack why great coaches are always assessing (without judging), how the right diagnostics can shorten the path to meaningful improvement, and why revenue alone isn't a useful starting point for development. John explains how My Sales Coach uses assessments to build coaching plans with focus, structure, and evidence of progress and why the Objective Management Group (OMG) assessment stands out for sales performance.

    The episode finishes with practical guidance on how to position assessments in a way that builds trust, reduces anxiety, and helps salespeople see the value: better outcomes, faster - without overwhelm.

    What You'll Learn

    • Why assessment is the shortcut to meaningful development (without "wasting time")
    • The difference between coaching with structure and coaching by guesswork
    • Why "more revenue" isn't a straight line from "better selling"
    • How to use assessments to create coaching focus without overwhelming the rep
    • Why OMG is not a personality test or a skills matrix and why that matters
    • The two "below the surface" indicators that often unlock the biggest progress:
      • Need for Approval
      • Supportive Buy Cycle
    • How "Will to Sell" works (Desire, Commitment, Motivation) and why it can be uncomfortable - but useful
    • How to position assessment so it feels like support, not judgement
    • Why top performers still benefit from diagnostics (elite sport analogy)

    If you're responsible for sales performance and want training/coaching to land faster and stick longer- this episode is a must-listen.

    And if you're curious about using assessment to create more focused, personalised development, connect with John directly:-

    Connect with John

    · LinkedIn: John Richardson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnrichardson11/

    · Website: https://www.mysalescoach.com/

    · Email: john@mysalescoach.com

    Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake

    Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/AvQrgeEAEwI

    Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers

    Useful resources

    • Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free
      Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/
    Show More Show Less
    43 mins
  • How to avoid AI killing your communication skills

    How to avoid AI killing your communication skills
    Jan 15 2026
    In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by communications and speech coach Susie Ashfield, author of Just F**king Say It and a third-time guest on the show. This is an "emergency podcast" sparked by a moment on LinkedIn: Susie posted a video where she stumbled and left it in. No polishing. No AI. No pretending. Because as AI-generated content gets smoother, faster, and more convincing, the thing that makes us stand out is increasingly simple:- being human. Together, Fred and Susie explore what we risk losing when we outsource too much of our thinking, speaking, and creativity and how sales and communication can stay authentic in a world racing towards perfection. In this episode, they explore: Why Susie kept the mistake in her LinkedIn video and why it mattered The "volcano project" problem: what happens when the parent (or AI) does the work Where AI is genuinely useful (time-saving, editing, polishing) vs where it flattens originality Why "give me 10 creative ideas" isn't actually creative The difference between amplifying your thinking and outsourcing your thinking Why micro-mistakes, humour, and real reactions build trust and relatability The Pratfall Effect and why small imperfections can increase likability Why AI scripts often sound "political" - and why humans respond more to "comedian energy" How to make better videos without becoming artificial Why quality beats quantity in sales outreach - and why AI-driven scale can backfire A powerful story about effort, authenticity, and why "rubbish" sometimes wins Key insights AI can make your content look perfect. But perfection isn't what creates connection. The future belongs to people who can think, speak, and show up with enough courage to be real - including the pauses, the stumbles, the humour, and the moments that don't land perfectly. Because that's where trust lives. Practical takeaways for salespeople and creators Use AI for the practical work (drafting, editing, formatting, speeding up execution) Keep the creative work human (insight, point of view, story, judgement, humour) Don't fear mistakes - small imperfections can increase engagement and relatability Ditch the "social script" of long intros and credibility lists: lead with the audience's problem Prioritise quality connections over mass automated outreach About Susie Ashfield Susie Ashfield is a communications and speech coach and the author of Just F**king Say It. She helps people speak with confidence and impact without sounding scripted, robotic, or artificial. The book is also available as an audiobook, read by Susie herself (of course). Get in touch with Susie · Search Susie Ashfield online to find her work and the book: https://amzn.eu/d/aIZJK6N · LinkedIn: message Susie Ashfield directly - she replies - https://www.linkedin.com/in/susannahashfield/ Connect with Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Free resources Collaborative Selling Scorecard Check how your sales approach fits today's environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/ Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Watch this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/R6iKggd27NA
    Show More Show Less
    37 mins
  • What is Selling? (And Has It Changed?)

    What is Selling? (And Has It Changed?)
    Jan 8 2026
    In the final episode of the Sales Today mini-series, Fred Copestake and James Michael step back to answer a deceptively simple question: Has selling really changed? The answer is both yes - and no. This closing conversation brings together the themes explored across the series and reframes selling not as persuasion or pressure, but as something far more human, thoughtful, and aligned with how buyers actually make decisions today. In this episode, they explore: What has stayed the same in selling - and what has genuinely evolved Why selling has always been about understanding people and solving problems How modern tools and insights allow salespeople to do a better job than ever before Why sales processes must align with buying processes How buyers often progress far before sales teams ever get involved Why tenders and late-stage engagement are rarely the start of the buying journey A powerful redefinition of selling that reframes everything Why ethical, buyer-led selling creates fair exchanges of value A simple definition of selling When asked to define selling in one sentence, Fred's answer is refreshingly clear: Selling is helping people buy. Sales isn't about control or coercion. It's about supporting people as they move through decisions — with or without you. A powerful reframing James shares a definition that brings the entire series together: Selling is a series of considered conversations of mutual curiosity, which ideally results in a fair exchange of value. This reframing removes pressure, manipulation, and performance - and replaces them with clarity, intent, and balance. Key insight Selling hasn't fundamentally changed - but our ability to do it well has. Today's best salespeople: Respect the buyer's journey Engage earlier with insight Align sales processes to buying behaviour Focus on value, not tactics When sales is done properly, it doesn't feel like selling at all. About the guests Fred Copestake Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches. James Michael Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability. Connect with James · LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/ · Website: www.justifiedtalent.com The end of the Sales Today mini-series This episode concludes the five-part Sales Today mini-series, exploring how selling must evolve - not by abandoning its foundations, but by returning to them with greater clarity, ethics, and intent. If you're new to the series, Episodes 1–4 are available now. Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/VrRNMcmR5aM Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Useful resources Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/
    Show More Show Less
    8 mins
  • CEMMT vs SaaS and an Ethical Approach

    CEMMT vs SaaS and an Ethical Approach
    Jan 2 2026
    In Episode 4 of the Sales Today mini series, Fred Copestake and James Michael tackle a growing tension in modern selling: the contrast between SaaS-led sales thinking and the realities of selling in CEMMT industries - construction, engineering, manufacturing, mining, and transport. At the heart of the discussion is Fred's work on Ethical Selling and why ethics isn't an abstract concept, but a practical, tactical necessity - particularly in complex, long-term, high-consequence sales environments. This episode challenges hype-driven sales narratives and asks a bigger question: are we optimising sales processes for speed and scale, or for trust and outcomes? In this episode, they explore: Why Fred felt compelled to write Ethical Selling - and why the timing mattered How ethics fits alongside existing sales frameworks rather than replacing them Why values, alignment, and conscience directly affect sales performance The difference between selling software and selling solutions that must last decades Where SaaS sales thinking adds value - and where it can fall short The rise of SDRs, AEs, and sales jargon - and how it lands in traditional industries Why ethical selling must be practical, tactical, and usable tomorrow The importance of ownership, continuity, and trust in CEMMT sales cycles Key insight Ethical selling isn't about being "nice". And it isn't about abstract principles. It's about being aligned, acting with intent, and selling in a way that creates value for the buyer, the business, and the salesperson. When ethics are practical and embedded into how sales is done, trust increases — and performance follows. Why this matters in CEMMT sales In CEMMT environments, sales decisions often involve: Long time horizons Multiple stakeholders Real-world consequences Assets that must perform for decades In these contexts, fast, fragmented, or overly mechanised sales approaches can undermine trust. Ethical, end-to-end ownership of the sales process isn't old-fashioned. It's essential. About the guests Fred Copestake Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches. James Michael Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability. Connect with James · LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/ · Website: www.justifiedtalent.com Part of the Sales Today - CEMMT Sales Series This is Episode 4 of a 5-part Sales Today mini-series, exploring how sales must evolve to reflect buyer behaviour, ethical expectations, and industry realities. Subscribe to Sales Today to catch the final episode in the series. Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1or4nrGzOOs Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Useful resources Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/
    Show More Show Less
    16 mins
  • Why Great Sales Conversations Are Built on Process, Not Personality

    Why Great Sales Conversations Are Built on Process, Not Personality
    Dec 30 2025
    In Episode 3 in this five part mini series of Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake and James Michael explore a question that challenges another long-held belief in sales: do great sales conversations succeed because of personality - or because of process? This episode looks at how the most effective salespeople consciously select their mode during conversations, switching between listening, questioning, sharing insight, and guiding the discussion - always with the buyer's outcome in mind. Rather than restricting creativity, process and structure create the space for better thinking, deeper understanding, and more human conversations. In this episode, they explore: Why the ability to "select the mode" matters more than personal style The principle of seek first to understand, then to be understood — and why it's more relevant than ever How process gives permission to listen before presenting Why modern sales conversations must earn the right to ask questions The role of hypotheses and insight in opening meaningful dialogue How frameworks reduce cognitive load and free salespeople to focus on the buyer The balance between structure and creativity in complex B2B sales Key insight Great sales conversations aren't improvised. They are guided by process, supported by structure, and brought to life through human judgement. Process doesn't turn salespeople into robots. It removes uncertainty, so attention can stay where it belongs — on the customer. Why this matters today Buyers are busy, informed, and often sceptical of traditional sales behaviour. Structure helps salespeople: Know when to listen and when to speak Lead with insight rather than interrogation Create clarity instead of adding noise In complex sales environments, process isn't a constraint. It's a competitive advantage. About the guests Fred Copestake Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches. James Michael Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability. Connect with James · LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/ · Website: www.justifiedtalent.com Part of the Sales Today - CEMMT Sales Series This is Episode 3 of a 5-part series exploring how selling must evolve to reflect how buyers think, decide, and behave today. Subscribe to Sales Today to continue the journey. Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/5F3NyWR1tEI Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Useful resources Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/
    Show More Show Less
    20 mins
  • Why "The Gift of the Gab" Is a Myth in Modern Sales

    Why "The Gift of the Gab" Is a Myth in Modern Sales
    Dec 22 2025
    In Episode 2 of the CEMMT Sales Series, Fred Copestake and James Michael challenge one of the most persistent stereotypes in sales: that success comes from being loud, charismatic, and constantly talking. Focusing on technical and specialist industries such as construction, engineering, manufacturing, and logistics, this episode explores why many highly capable professionals feel uncomfortable with selling — and why that discomfort is often rooted in outdated assumptions about what sales really is. In this episode, we explore: Where the "gift of the gab" stereotype comes from — and why it no longer applies Why technical experts are often pushed into sales roles without the right preparation How sales gained a reputation for manipulation and performance What thousands of psychometric assessments reveal about top B2B sales performers Why extroverts are not automatically better at selling The rise of the ambivert in modern, complex sales environments The role of listening, silence, and thoughtful questioning in buyer-led conversations Key insight Modern sales doesn't reward the loudest voice in the room. The most effective salespeople today are those who can switch modes — talking when it adds value, listening when it matters more, and creating space for buyers to think clearly. The "gift of the gab" isn't a strength in complex B2B sales. Balance is. Why this matters today Buyers now arrive informed, cautious, and often overwhelmed by choice and internal complexity. What they need isn't persuasion. They need someone who can help them make sense of decisions, navigate stakeholders, and move forward with confidence. That requires empathy, restraint, and adaptability - not performance. About the guests Fred Copestake Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has worked with over 10,000 salespeople across 38 countries, helping organisations move away from outdated sales behaviours and towards collaborative, ethical selling. James Michael Founder of Justified Talent, James specialises in recruiting and assessing first-time sales hires. With a background in behavioural psychology, he uses data-led psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales — beyond stereotypes and assumptions. Connect with James · LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/ · Website: www.justifiedtalent.com Part of the Sales Today - CEMMT Sales Series This is Episode 2 of a 5-part series exploring how selling must evolve to align with how buyers think, behave, and make decisions today - particularly in complex, technical environments. Subscribe to Sales Today to continue the series. Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Watch this episode on YouTube: h https://youtu.be/mRzOStF-JsM Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Useful resources Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/
    Show More Show Less
    15 mins