In 2021, we recorded a powerful conversation with James Ellis on "The Intelligent Rebellion" podcast, and its message is more relevant now than ever. This is the 10min version of that conversation.

This conversation critiques healthcare and return-to-work systems that prioritise KPIs, costs, and profit over seeing patients as people. James and Rhea discuss the ethical tension of running a for-profit healthcare business while maintaining duty of care, and draw a clear line against profit-driven decisions that extend treatment beyond what is ethically and scientifically best.

They explore intuition, when it’s reliable (deep familiarity) and when it misleads (job interviews) and connect it to evidence-based practice, arguing that hunches often spark research while science helps overcome bias, though it can be misused. James emphasises that supporting injured workers requires trust and listening, but billing models and “billable hours” push clinicians toward prescribing over listening, limiting true “hours of care.”

Despite the years that have passed, these topics remain integral to understanding and reforming our approach to healthcare and compensation. The insights shared by James continue to spark thought and drive conversations in our industry today.

We invite you to listen to this episode and reflect on how we can continue to improve our systems for all the humans within.

Listen to the full episode

Find James Ellis: Linkedin | Framework Group |

"Ten Minutes With" is brought to you by The Intelligent Rebellion and is a Threesticks Production.

Copyright (c) Threesticks Pty Ltd & Rhea Mercado (R)

The team who produce the The Intelligent Rebellion Podcast, and Ten Minutes With Podcast acknowledge the traditional owners and ongoing custodians of the land on which the podcast is recorded. We are located on the land of the Dharug people. We pay our respects to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, and to the Elders past, present and emerging

The Intelligent Rebellion Podcast, and Ten Minutes With Podcast is a Threesticks Production. Hosted and Produced by Rhea Mercado. Our Emperor of Sound, Original Music Man and Executive Producer is Wills. Copyright 2026 Threesticks Pty Ltd & Rhea Mercado®.

THE BIG PRINT - DISCLAIMER

The contents of this program / podcast is made available for entertainment purposes. The views and information expressed by the Guests of the program represents the view and opinions of the Guest and does not necessarily represent the view or opinions of Rhea Mercado® and/or Threesticks Pty Ltd. The information presented in this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for any other professional rehabilitation advice, injury management advice, rehabilitation advice, medical advice, legal advice, financial advice, diagnosis, or treatment nor a substitute for guidelines, legislations, frameworks, processes or procedures. We encourage you always seek advice which meets your personal and/or professional circumstances and specific needs.

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