Joe Withrow, Brian Moody, and Hans Toohey deliver a joint strategy session on building a financial foundation that survives contact with reality. Why does traditional financial planning put growth before protection? What happens when your plan gets punched in the face? And why is Infinite Banking the only savings vehicle that accomplishes two critical goals simultaneously?

Most people have been trained to think their 401(k) is savings and their term life insurance is "just in case." They're told to focus on growth—index funds, average rates of return, retirement projections—while protection and actual savings become afterthoughts. But when job loss hits, disability strikes, or markets crater, the whole plan collapses. This episode reveals the proper order of operations: protect first, save second, grow third. Hans breaks down why "average rate of return" is a meaningless data point. Brian illustrates the parallel paths of protection and wealth accumulation with the diagram that makes it all click. And Joe explains why buying insurance isn't an expense if you do it correctly—it's saving money that immediately becomes accessible capital.

The conversation covers IBC mechanics, policy loans that don't disrupt compounding, real estate purchases funded with cash value, the power of dinner table time for passing down values, and why building generational wealth starts with one decision: get the foundation right, then everything else becomes possible.

Chapters:

• 00:00 - Opening segment

• 01:25 - New Year's resolutions: tangible goals vs. vague aspirations

• 08:50 - The invention of "Retirement Inc." in the 1970s

• 11:05 - Protect, Save, Grow: the proper order of operations

• 13:10 - What traditional CFPs get wrong about protection

• 14:35 - Why "average rate of return" is a useless metric

• 16:40 - Brian's parallel paths diagram begins

• 19:30 - The two parallel paths: protection and wealth accumulation

• 22:30 - What can disrupt the wealth curve? (audience participation)

• 25:50 - Poor investment decisions: the most common sabotage

• 27:05 - Infinite money printing: Congress is the real villain

• 30:05 - Low Stress Options trading: the 1% per week framework

• 32:25 - Why people abandon the framework (and regret it)

• 33:00 - Systematizing savings: DCA into gold and Bitcoin every week

• 36:25 - UPMA for fractional gold ownership

• 37:45 - IBC: not an expense, it's saving money

• 39:15 - The kids' policies: $3,000 payment = $3,500 cash value

• 40:10 - Legal protection: equity in life insurance vs. bank accounts

• 41:15 - Brian: IBC's rate isn't big compared to investments, but...

• 42:50 - Whole life matches a guaranteed event (death) with guaranteed outcome

• 44:30 - Joe's real estate purchases funded by policy loans

• 45:30 - Hans breaks down policy loan mechanics (not simple interest)

• 47:40 - Annual compounding with principal-only repayments

• 48:15 - Hans's approach: keep loans levered for LSO trading

• 49:45 - Cash doesn't find opportunities, opportunities find cash

• 51:00 - Brian's land purchase: opportunity requires capital

• 53:10 - Making purchases for freedom and security, not money itself

• 59:30 - Actionable next steps

• 1:08:40 - Heritage over inheritance: building bloodline strength

• 1:09:30 - The Five Pillars: financial is just one piece

• 1:10:10 - Passing down American values and family culture

• 1:12:25 - Dinner table time: 90 minutes in the '70s vs. 11 minutes today

• 1:14:30 - Start at your locus of control and expand outward

• 1:15:20 - Multi-generational thinking: buying IBC for grandkids

• 1:27:00 - Closing segment

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Brian breaks down the most misunderstood aspect of Infinite Banking: loan repayments. Why do we pay ourselves back at market rates? What does EVA actually mean? And what happens when you pay yourself more than the insurance company charges?

Most people think being their own banker means they can be loose with repayment—skip payments, pay whenever, charge themselves whatever rate feels right. You can, per the contract. But should you? This episode reveals why maintaining market-rate discipline for the full loan duration is what separates wealth builders from people who just talk about IBC. Brian explains where that "extra interest" actually goes, how to decide how much to pay against your loan, and how Parkinson's Law can destroy generational wealth before it ever gets started.

Discipline is what builds legacy wealth. Without it, you're just the worst kind of bank: one with no standards, no discipline, and ultimately no capital.

• 00:00 - Opening segment

• 00:40 - Introduction: Why loan repayments trip people up

• 01:30 - Policy loan mechanics: you're not withdrawing, you're borrowing

• 02:10 - Economic Value Added (EVA): the fundamental principle

• 03:05 - Why people go sideways: thinking interest doesn't matter

• 03:30 - Nelson Nash's recommendation: pay market rates for full duration

• 04:40 - What "market rates" actually means

• 05:20 - Maintaining discipline that creates wealth

• 06:30 - The $30K car loan example at 5% over 5 years

• 07:25 - Where does the extra interest go when you pay yourself more?

• 08:30 - The insurance company doesn't care what rate you calculate

• 09:30 - Should you keep paying after the loan is satisfied early?

• 11:00 - Where most people sabotage themselves: the early payoff trap

• 11:30 - Parkinson's Law: expenses rise to meet income

• 12:50 - What to do when your PUAs are maxed out

• 14:00 - Capital deployment vs. consumption: know the difference

• 14:20 - Parkinson's Law destroys generational wealth

• 16:00 - The temptation to "save on interest" (you're paying yourself)

• 17:00 - "But I can make more investing elsewhere" - the speculation trap

• 18:10 - IBC isn't about loopholes, it's about discipline

• 19:10 - Practical implementation: set up auto-pay, treat it like any loan

• 19:40 - The $40K truck example: paying 7% when insurance charges 5%

• 22:30 - Decision tree when your policy is truly maxed

• 26:15 - Income doesn't equal wealth: the $500K pilot who's broke

• 27:00 - The $80K family building dynastic wealth

• 28:40 - Final recap: market rates, full duration, have a plan

• 30:00 - EVA: every loan should create value, every payment should build

• 30:45 - If your practitioner says rates don't matter, run

• 31:20 - The Moody Family Creed and how it applies here

• 31:50 - Closing thoughts

Economic Value Added (EVA): The fundamental question: did the thing you financed produce more value than the loan cost you? Borrow at 5%, asset returns 8% = positive EVA. Borrow at 5%, thing depreciates = negative EVA.

Pay Yourself Market Rates: Nelson Nash recommended paying loans back at market rates or higher— at least what you'd pay elsewhere for similar financing. This maintains the discipline that creates wealth.

The Full Duration Principle: Even if you pay a loan off early by using higher interest rates, keep making those payments for the full original term. A 5-year loan means 5 years of payments to your system.

The Early Payoff Trap: This is where most people sabotage themselves.

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Chapters:Key Takeaways:Got Questions? Reach out to us at info@remnantfinance.com or book a call at https://remnantfinance.com/calendar !

Hans and Brian challenge the conventional wisdom around qualified retirement plans and expose the misaligned incentives baked into the 401(k) system.

Most people defend their 401(k)s and IRAs with passion—but they're carrying water for institutions whose goals directly conflict with their own. This episode breaks down the four things financial institutions want from your money, reveals the history of how employers shifted pension risk onto employees, and asks the critical question: whose incentives are you serving?

The conventional model says lock your money away for 40 years, fund your own retirement, bear all the market risk, and hope you have enough at 65. The qualified plan gives you a 13-year window of control—you can't touch it penalty-free until 59.5, and RMDs force withdrawals starting at 73. That means if you live to 76, you only controlled your money 25% of your life. Meanwhile, the average person retiring today has $537,000 saved but needs $1.5 million. The system is failing, yet people aggressively defend it.

Chapters:

00:00 - Opening segment 03:40 - Revisiting fundamentals 04:25 - What do financial institutions want from you? 05:25 - The four goals: get your money, hold it systematically, keep it long, give back little 06:40 - We just described a qualified plan 07:50 - The 13-year window: locked until 59.5, forced RMDs at 73 08:45 - Tax benefits: the one real advantage of a Roth 10:00 - Why we're assuming Roth for this discussion 11:30 - The gray area in Roth tax code and the $42 trillion sitting in qualified plans 12:35 - Only controlling your money 25% of your life 13:20 - Teaching kids to be good stewards vs. locking their money away 14:30 - RMD penalties: 25% minimum, up to 50% in some scenarios 16:00 - TSP RMD mechanics: you can't choose which funds to liquidate 17:00 - Taking the employer match and using whole life as a volatility buffer 18:20 - Spending down qualified plans first, not leaving them to heirs 18:50 - The pension system: employers provided capital and bore market risk 21:20 - The shift: now employees fund their own retirement and bear all risk 23:10 - Stockholm Syndrome: aggressively defending the institutions that benefit 24:00 - Median household income $84K, needs $1.5M, average savings $537K 27:40 - Why the average is skewed by millionaires (statistical reality check) 29:25 - Comparing contractual guarantees to projections and prospectuses 31:00 - Strip away the labels: whole life is just an asset, just like mutual funds 32:20 - We want you to understand WHY you believe what you believe 33:35 - The rate of return objection and Nelson's tailwind example 36:15 - Whose incentives align with yours? Insurance companies vs. 401(k) managers 38:05 - Underwriting proves alignment: they want you healthy and financially stable 39:30 - Our mission: cut banks out, create tax-free estates, control your capital 41:15 - Closing thoughts

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Hans and Brian break down the four-stage framework for infinite banking mastery, drawn from Factum Financial's work observing how practitioners actually use their policies over time.

Most people who buy a whole life policy think they're "doing infinite banking." They're not. They're at Stage One—and most never make it past Stage Three. This episode walks through the progression from Saver to Wealth Builder to Business Banker to Infinite Banker, and explains why defining success is the only way to stop chasing "more" forever.

The conventional approach to money says sacrifice now, maybe live on rice and beans, and hope for abundance at 65. The infinite banking model allows you to live in abundance now while building exponentially greater wealth for future generations—but only if you understand what stage you're in and where you're actually going.

Chapters:

00:00 - Opening segment

03:40 - Why most life insurance is just a drawer document

04:50 - Stage One: The Saver (financial education, awareness, saving strategy)

06:30 - Why getting the policy doesn't make you proficient

08:00 - Stage Two: The Wealth Builder (adding debt strategy and investing strategy)

11:15 - Understanding policy loan mechanics and efficient cash flow capture

12:00 - Multiple uses of your dollar: saving and debt repayment simultaneously

12:35 - Stage Three: The Business Banker (comprehensive integration)

14:00 - Raising deductibles and optimizing cash flow across all insurance

16:05 - Asset protection and trust structures

17:35 - The synergistic effect when investing strategies tie back into the system

18:00 - Stage Four: The Infinite Banker (maximum control and financial freedom)

18:25 - Jason Lowe's family with 77 policies financing nothing through banks

20:05 - The five areas of life: spiritual, personal, family, financial, occupation

22:35 - Hans's financial goals: zero budget on health/longevity and slow travel

24:30 - Why you need to get comfortable with material goals

26:00 - Finance as the area that spreads across everything else

27:35 - Even a simple quiet life requires getting financial loose ends tied up

29:10 - Leaving disorder vs leaving a legacy

31:30 - Identifying which stage you're in and continuously optimizing

32:25 - Recap of the four stages

32:35 - Contrasting with the conventional "no control" financial planning model

34:40 - Closing thoughts

Key Takeaways:

• Stage One - The Saver: Getting the policy in place with financial education, awareness, and a saving strategy. Understanding why you have a term rider, what your MEC limit is, and the basic structure. Many clients can't fully explain these elements a year after purchase—that's normal, but it means you're still at Stage One.
  

• Stage Two - The Wealth Builder: Adding debt strategy and investing strategy on top of the whole life chassis. Using policy loans efficiently, understanding being your own banker, and making your dollars work in multiple places simultaneously. Most Remnant Finance clients are here.
  

• Stage Three - The Business Banker: Treating family cash flow like a business. Comprehensive integration of cash flow management, optimized insurance strategies (raising deductibles to maximize inflows), asset protection, and trust structures. The synergistic effect where investments flow back into the entire system.
  

• Stage Four - The Infinite Banker: True financial freedom with maximum control over your entire financial life. Multi-generational legacy where the next generation understands and participates.
  

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Hans and Brian sit down with the Tax Sherpa team—Neal, Serena, and Fatma —to walk through the tax implications of options trading before it's too late to do anything about it.

Most in the Remnant caucus of the Low Stress Options community haven't filed a tax return reflecting this trading activity yet. They're tracking weekly income in their spreadsheets and assume that's what they'll owe taxes on—but the brokerage statements tell a completely different story. The bottom line? If you're making real money trading options, you need actual tax strategy in place now—not in March when it's too late to make adjustments.

Chapters:

00:00 - Opening segment

02:20 - How options are actually taxed (short-term capital gains, rolling, assignments)

06:05 - Active trader vs passive trader: do you want professional trader status?

08:35 - The $3,000 capital loss limit explained (and why it's basically a slap in the face)

11:05 - Offsetting gains with losses: you can deduct more than $3,000 in the current year

13:45 - Tax loss harvesting and why FREC's approach is interesting

15:00 - How rolling options creates separate taxable events

17:05 - Why the $3,000 limit was never inflation-adjusted (it should be $25-30K today)

18:15 - Gambling losses and why they only offset gambling wins

20:25 - What your brokerage statement will actually show vs what the tracker shows

22:40 - Real estate as a "tax sponge" for offsetting capital gains

24:00 - Interest tracing: deducting policy loan interest on Schedule A

26:00 - Should you use one policy exclusively for investment loans?

28:25 - Why you shouldn't be doing this with TurboTax

29:00 - Mortgage interest deduction limits after the Big Beautiful Bill

35:20 - Using an LLC for trading: real estate, consulting, or all-in-one?

37:55 - Why crypto taxes are endlessly complex (smart contracts, staking, DeFi)

47:15 - Wash sale rule: does getting assigned invoke it?

55:30 - The Tax Sherpa process: survey, planning, execution

Key Takeaways:

• Options are taxed as short-term capital gains (at your ordinary income rate) in 99% of cases—each contract is a separate taxable event, so rolling creates multiple transactions

• The $3,000 capital loss limit is the NET position—you can offset unlimited gains plus an additional $3,000, then carry forward the remainder into future years

• Your brokerage tracker shows return on equity; Schwab reports each individual trade—they're answering different questions, which is why people are often pleasantly surprised at tax time

• If you're using policy loans to fund trading, you can deduct the interest on Schedule A through interest tracing—but you have to actually pay it and document the allocation

• Professional trader status (mark-to-market accounting) is almost never advantageous unless trading is literally your full-time business with substantial daily activity and deductible expenses

• Custodial accounts for kids don't provide much tax benefit due to kiddie tax rules—and they count against the student for financial aid purposes, unlike parent-held assets

• Do your tax planning NOW, not in March—once the year is over, you've lost the ability to make strategic adjustments that could save you tens of thousands of dollars

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Hans and Brian break down the internet outrage over Trump's proposed 50-year mortgage—and why almost everyone is missing the point.

The real issue? Homes aren't going up in value—they're going up in price. And it's not because of creative mortgage products. It's because we've been completely untethered from financial discipline, buying based on monthly payments instead of actual value. The average person moves or refinances every seven years anyway, so whether it's 15, 30, or 50 years doesn't fundamentally change the problem.

Hans walks through the net present value discount formula to show why all three mortgage options are mathematically equivalent when you understand time value of money. The key isn't which mortgage term you choose—it's what you do with the cash flow difference and whether you understand human behavior well enough to avoid Parkinson's Law.

Plus: why banks love principle-only payments (you're giving them 2055 dollars at full value today), the mortgage recast strategy your lender will never mention, and why the only real solution is controlling the entire banking function yourself so your kids and grandkids never have to step inside a traditional bank.

Chapters:

00:00 - Opening segment02:28 - Comparing total interest paid: 15 vs 30 vs 50 year mortgages 04:00 - The net present value discount formula explained 06:56 - Why understanding cash flow and equity matters 10:38 - The three variables that determine mortgage mechanics 13:00 - Parkinson's Law and the "compared to what" question

17:16 - Front-loading vs back-loading mortgage payments (policy loan example) 18:33 - The mortgage recast strategy banks won't tell you about 21:39 - Why future dollars are worth less than today's dollars 29:00 - The only two times you're secure in home ownership 30:22 - Taking control of the entire banking function for your family 34:07 - People don't buy homes, they buy monthly payments 37:37 - The already-broken system that 50-year mortgages expose 40:22 - Neil McSpadden's take: this isn't about affordability, it's about liquidity 42:00 - Comparing three different mortgage strategies with whole life policies 47:48 - The seen and the unseen: what are you doing with that capital? 49:00 - Why human behavior matters more than the math 51:00 - Nelson Nash and understanding the banking function first

Key Takeaways:

• Homes are going up in price, not value—untethered financial behavior and "what can I afford per month" thinking has driven housing costs through the roof for decades

• All mortgage terms (15, 30, 50 year) are mathematically equivalent when you understand net present value discount formula—what matters is what you do with the cash flow difference

• When you make principle-only payments, you're giving banks full-value 2055 dollars today without any discount—they love this because you're making them whole on payments that should be worth a fraction of their face value

• The average homeowner moves or refinances every seven years, making the actual loan term almost irrelevant—you're not paying off your house anyway, even with a 15-year mortgage

• Most lenders won't tell you about mortgage recasting—make a lump sum payment (usually $10k minimum), pay a small fee, and they'll recalculate your loan with a lower monthly payment while keeping the same term

• The real solution isn't optimizing which mortgage to choose—it's building a family banking system so you control the entire function: the repayment schedule, the equity, and the process

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Brian and Hans record together IN PERSON for the first time at the Factum Financial Infinite Banking Mastery Event in Scottsdale, Arizona, joined by Josh Rose from Factum Financial. This isn't your typical financial conference recap—it's a raw conversation about why the best financial gatherings spend more time discussing kids, vacations, and family legacy than investment returns.

Whether you're struggling with the "we don't talk about money" generational curse or wondering how to raise financially literate kids without forcing them into specific careers, this fireside chat challenges everything conventional wisdom teaches about family and finances.

Chapters:

00:00 - Opening: First in-person recording from Scottsdale

02:28 - Introducing Josh Rose and his journey to IBC

05:05 - How IBC brings families together vs. traditional finance separating them

06:56 - The Five Core Areas (Fab Five): Faith, Family, Fitness, Finance, Friendship

10:38 - Evaluating your life as a wheel—are all areas balanced?

17:16 - Living intentionally now vs. locking money away for retirement

21:39 - "I don't have access to my money for 3-4 years" objection

28:17 - The startup business analogy for whole life policies

31:32 - The Future Family Letter: Eliminate bad habits, set standards, create excitement

35:47 - Breaking the "we don't talk about money" curse

37:37 - Teaching kids about money age-appropriately

40:22 - Making "policy" a normal word in your household

44:07 - "I want my children to do whatever they want PLUS be a banker"

47:48 - Everyone's in two businesses: income generation and banking

52:30 - Closing segment

Key Takeaways:

• Traditional finance promotes individuality and separates families—IBC brings families together through interdependence and shared banking systems

• The Five Core Areas (Faith, Family, Fitness, Finance, Friendship) create a framework for evaluating whether your life is "running smoothly"—connect the dots to see if your wheel is balanced

• Your kids are only this age once—IBC removes the false choice between living fully now and saving for later by giving you access to capital while building guaranteed wealth

• The "we don't talk about money" generational curse creates financially illiterate children who learn from the world instead of their parents—break this by making "policy" a normal household word

• Write a Future Family Letter to eliminate generational habits you don't want, set clear standards for what you do want, and create excitement about what your family can become

• Make your children bankers first, then let them do whatever career they want—the banking foundation gives them freedom to pursue their passions without financial anxiety

• Traditional financial planning asks "what will I accumulate by 65?"—IBC asks "how can I live abundantly in all five areas while building generational wealth?"
  

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Two-time NASCAR champion Kyle Busch just lost $8.5 million in an Indexed Universal Life policy after paying $10.5 million in premiums. This isn't just celebrity drama—it's a case study in why 90%+ of IULs collapse and why we'll never sell one.

IULs try to be insurance, savings, and investment all in one product. The result? A policy full of moving parts, changing cap rates, rising mortality charges, and a "path of least resistance" that leads most people to stop funding properly. By your 70s, the annual insurance cost skyrockets while your cash value evaporates. The company transfers risk back to you—the opposite of what insurance should do.

Whole life insurance has guaranteed increases, true downside protection, unlimited upside potential, and a 200+ year track record. Don't mix protection, savings, and growth into one product. Keep them separate. Think in years, measure in weeks. And whatever you do, don't "IUL" your financial future.

Chapters:

00:00 - Opening segment

01:44 - Kyle Busch

$8.5M IUL lawsuit introduced

03:51 - How did this happen? Bobby Samuelson article breakdown

05:43 - Agent structured policy to maximize his compensation

07:21 - Why celebrity cases expose industry-wide problems

09:19 - How IULs work: cap rates, floors, participation rates

13:07 - The mortality charge death spiral explained

14:32 - Real client story

18:32 - Why policies collapse in your 70s and 80s

20:18 - Net amount at risk breakdown

22:11 - IULs transfer risk back to you (opposite of insurance)

22:54 - Protect, Save, Grow: Don't mix them

26:13 - Why IULs exist and why they fail

28:17 - Whole life dividends vs IUL flexibility traps

32:52 - Proper protection across all life areas

35:12 - Long-term thinking vs optimization traps

38:17 - Conservative approach to new growth strategies

40:12 - Don't "IUL" your trading or life insurance

42:30 - Closing segment

Key Takeaways:

• Kyle Busch lost $8.5M of $10.5M in premiums in an IUL—brings national attention to product failure rates

• IULs have cap rates (max return), floors (usually 0%), and participation rates—but companies can change caps anytime

• 90%+ of IULs collapse because of human behavior traps and rising mortality charges in later years

• IULs charge monthly mortality based on net amount at risk—when policy underperforms, charges increase

• Insurance should transfer risk to the company—IULs transfer risk back to you

• Whole life has guaranteed increases every year, true downside protection, unlimited upside potential, and 200+ year track record

• Don't mix protection, savings, and growth—keep them separate and intentional

• Think in years, measure in weeks—stay conservative even when you find better strategies

• Only time to "buy term and invest the difference": when your only other option is an IUL

Got Questions? Reach out to us at info@remnantfinance.com or book a call at https://remnantfinance.com/calendar !

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