This is the second part of Michael Gove’s conversation with Munira Mirza. After reflecting in part one on multiculturalism and the fractures in modern Britain, this second instalment turns to the question of leadership, and the lessons both Boris and Starmer should learn.

Munira reflects on Boris Johnson’s premiership, describing him as ‘a better man than many of his detractors would admit’ but acknowledging his foibles and lack of decisiveness at critical moments. Was he a good Prime Minister?

They go on to debate whether the wiring of the British state – from the Human Rights Act to the Equality Act – has made effective government harder, and whether Reform are right to call for repeal of both of these pieces of legislation.

Finally, Munira delivers a stark assessment of Britain’s political class, questioning whether the calibre of MPs is good enough, criticising the culture of risk-aversion in Westminster, and making the case for ‘radical candour’ in politics.

Produced by Oscar Edmondson.

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This week, Michael is joined by Munira Mirza. Raised in Oldham and educated at Oxford, Munira worked at Policy Exchange before serving as Deputy Mayor of London under Boris Johnson and later as Director of the No.10 Policy Unit, where she helped shape the Conservatives’ 2019 election manifesto. She now leads Civic Future and the think tank Fix Britain.

In the first of this two-part interview, Munira reflects on Labour’s vulnerability in the upcoming Gorton and Denton by-election, and the ‘serious threat’ it faces if the Muslim votes flees to the Greens. She discusses the politicisation of religious identity, the influence of Islamism in Britain, and what she sees as a failure of public authorities to confront hard truths.

They also discuss the news this week that Valdo Calocane – the man who killed three people in Nottingham in 2023 – was released from hospital in 2020 because health professionals were concerned about the disproportionate number of black men who were being detained in the mental health system. Munira argues that fear of being accused of institutional racism has distorted decision-making, a scandal of potentially greater magnitude than the grooming gangs and with serious consequences for public safety.

Finally, she revisits Brexit and the 2019 realignment, defending the decision to leave the EU and arguing that levelling up was an attempt to fix a broken economic model built on high immigration and weak productivity.

Produced by Oscar Edmondson.

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This week, Michael and Maddie consider Reform UK's succession plan. With Nigel Farage unveiling his new shadow cabinet, attention shifts to the bigger question: who comes after him? Is Reform preparing for life beyond its founder – and if so, who stands ready to inherit the crown?

Also this week, they examine the fallout from the court’s decision to overturn the government’s attempt to proscribe Palestine Action – and ask what it means for free speech, public order and the limits of the state.

They explore whether Britain is drifting toward a de facto blasphemy law, and debate claims of ‘two-tier justice’ in the handling of extremist activism. Has the government lost control of the argument — or is it simply constrained by the courts?

Produced by Oscar Edmondson.

To submit your questions to Michael and Maddie, visit spectator.com/quiteright

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