Is your Git repo really the source of truth for infrastructure - or just a suggestion?

Guest host Kelsey Hightower sits down with Cory O’Daniel to unpack why many teams hit dead ends with CI/CD for provisioning, where GitOps struggles with drift, and when TicketOps helps or hurts. They explore a different model: infrastructure as data with typed contracts, shared artifacts, and workflows that embed policy, validation, and upgrades from the start. You’ll hear practical ways to reduce cognitive load for developers while giving operations reliable control and better day‑2 levers.

You’ll learn:

• Why pipelines are a poor fit for infra provisioning and what to do instead
• How to reason about drift as a three‑way merge with reality
• When reconciliation helps, and when it breaks production firefights
• How typed contracts and artifacts connect modules and teams without glue scripts
• Ways to present safer self‑service without requiring everyone to learn Terraform
• A simple mental model for treating TicketOps as a surface, not the workflow

Guest Host: Kelsey Hightower

Kelsey has worn every hat possible throughout his career in tech and enjoys leadership roles focused on making things happen and shipping software. Prior to his retirement, he was a Distinguished Engineer at Google, where he worked on Google Cloud Platform. He is a strong open source advocate with a focus on building great software as well as great communities around them. He is also an accomplished author and keynote speaker with a knack for demystifying complex topics, doing live demos and enabling others to succeed. When he is not writing code, you can catch him giving technical workshops covering everything from programming to system administration.

Guest: Cory O'Daniel, CEO and Co-Founder of Massdriver and Co-Founder of OpenTofu

Cory has been a software architect and engineer for 20 years, leading up to the founding of MassDriver. He's also a husband and the father of two kids.

Cory O'Daniel, X

Cory O'Daniel, Medium

Massdriver, website

Massdriver, GitHub

Massdriver, Youtube

Open Tofu

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• "Gitopscracy" video

What if your production environment had a live, trustworthy blueprint you could zoom in and out of on demand?

Kelsey Hightower guest-hosts a candid conversation with Cory about why CI/CD pipelines and GitOps often break down for cloud infrastructure. They explore a simpler operational model: treat infrastructure as data, lean on clear checkpoints instead of rigid “golden paths,” and make production legible for both developers and ops.

You’ll learn:

• Where CI/CD adds friction for infra and what to do instead
• Why GitOps works for apps but hits limits for databases, networks, and multi-region realities
• How “living diagrams” help new teammates understand prod on day one
• Practical guardrails that evolve with your org without locking teams in
• Ways to reduce drift, surprise cloud costs, and Day Two chaos
• A mindset shift: databases for ops data, not shell-script archaeology

Walk away with concrete patterns to make production understandable, auditable, and easier to change—without more YAML or bigger pipelines.

Guest Host: Kelsey Hightower

Kelsey has worn every hat possible throughout his career in tech and enjoys leadership roles focused on making things happen and shipping software. Prior to his retirement, he was a Distinguished Engineer at Google, where he worked on Google Cloud Platform. He is a strong open source advocate with a focus on building great software as well as great communities around them. He is also an accomplished author and keynote speaker with a knack for demystifying complex topics, doing live demos and enabling others to succeed. When he is not writing code, you can catch him giving technical workshops covering everything from programming to system administration.

Guest: Cory O'Daniel, CEO and Co-Founder of Massdriver and Co-Founder of OpenTofu

Cory has been a software architect and engineer for 20 years, leading up to the founding of MassDriver. He's also a husband and the father of two kids.

Cory O'Daniel, X

Cory O'Daniel, Medium

Massdriver, website

Massdriver, GitHub

Massdriver, Youtube

Open Tofu

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• SigNoz
• “The $6,459 Terraform Lesson: Why Infrastructure Lifecycle Monitoring Matters” by Liz Fong-Jones
• "Gitopscracy" video

Ever wonder why strong Terraform modules still lead to long review queues and fragile pipelines? From hand-built scripts and early data center migrations to cloud sprawl and Kubernetes, configuration management has changed a lot - but the core struggle remains: too many decisions, not enough guardrails. Guest host Kelsey Hightower sits down with Cory O’Daniel to unpack where Infrastructure as Code succeeds and where teams get stuck.

What you’ll learn:

• How to avoid “choice overload” in cloud configs by moving decisions upstream
• Practical ways to pair IaC with UX, policies, and SLAs to reduce toil
• When click-ops is a symptom, not the problem - and how to replace it safely
• Patterns for scaling platform practices beyond a handful of experts
• A simple mental model for mapping workflows across serverless, containers, and VMs

Guest Host: Kelsey Hightower

Kelsey has worn every hat possible throughout his career in tech and enjoys leadership roles focused on making things happen and shipping software. Prior to his retirement, he was a Distinguished Engineer at Google, where he worked on Google Cloud Platform. He is a strong open source advocate with a focus on building great software as well as great communities around them. He is also an accomplished author and keynote speaker with a knack for demystifying complex topics, doing live demos and enabling others to succeed. When he is not writing code, you can catch him giving technical workshops covering everything from programming to system administration.

Guest: Cory O'Daniel, CEO and Co-Founder of Massdriver and Co-Founder of OpenTofu

Cory has been a software architect and engineer for 20 years, leading up to the founding of MassDriver. He's also a husband and the father of two kids.

Cory O'Daniel, X

Cory O'Daniel, Medium

Massdriver, website

Massdriver, GitHub

Massdriver, Youtube

Open Tofu

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• "The Phoenix Project: A Novel about IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win" by Gene Kim
• "15 Years of Duct Tape - Why IaC Adoption Stalled at 30"

Still freezing code before Black Friday and hoping nothing breaks? Feature flags can help you ship smaller, safer changes continuously—without the “big bang” risk or painful rollbacks.

Cory O’Daniel talks with Unleash VP of Marketing Michael Ferranti about how modern teams use flags as a core delivery primitive alongside CI/CD and trunk-based development. They dig into kill switches for instant mitigation, progressive rollouts tied to real metrics, and why homegrown “if-statement” systems turn into hidden platforms you didn’t mean to build. They also cover the rising volume of AI‑assisted code and how flags provide the control layer to move faster while protecting reliability.

What you’ll learn:

• How feature flags reduce risk for high-stakes periods like Black Friday by avoiding code freezes
• When to replace staging queues with progressive delivery and experiment-driven rollouts
• Practical uses: kill switches, trunk-based development, targeting, and cleanup strategies to manage flag debt
• Build vs. buy: why DIY flag systems become costly and how Unleash’s open source and on-prem options fit regulated or air‑gapped needs
• Using business, engineering, and customer signals to automate safe ramp-ups and ramp-backs
• Why AI increases code throughput, how it affects reliability, and how flags create the safety rails for agentic workflows

Guest: Michael Ferranti, VP of Marketing at Unleash

Michael Ferranti has held leadership roles at Teleport, Portworx, ClusterHQ, and Rackspace Technology, with a focus on go-to-market strategy in open-source and enterprise software. At Teleport he focused on shifting from legacy security models to developer-first, identity-driven access. At Portworx, he was building new GTM strategies for Kubernetes-native storage when everyone was still figuring out containers, and he helped scale the company from under $500K in revenue to a $370M acquisition by Pure Storage. His work has centered on supporting engineering leaders in delivering features, scaling infrastructure, and improving security without adding unnecessary blockers. Michael has spoken at industry events like KubeCon and theCUBE, sharing insights on platform org design, category creation, and growing open-source adoption.

Unleash, website

Unleash, GitHub

Unleash, LinkedIn

Unleash, X

Unleash, Slack

Unleash, YouTube

UnleashCon 2025

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• React
• Bitbucket
• LaunchDarkly
• ServiceNow

**UPDATE** - Apollo GraphQL has kindly offered us a few free passes to join them at the GraphQL Summit in San Francisco, October 6-8, 2025. If you are interested in going, the code is: PodcastSummit25

What if your API layer could help you ship faster today and make tomorrow’s AI workflows safer and easier to build?

Apollo CEO Matt DeBergalis explains how GraphQL became a practical standard for unifying messy backends, why declarative schemas and strong types are the “bedrock” for agentic systems, and where MCP fits when you want agents to call business data safely. You’ll hear real examples of speeding up frontends, tightening observability, and running focused personalization without “fat” APIs.

What you’ll learn:

• A plain-language model for GraphQL and why it decouples frontend needs from backend services
• How typing, schema docs, and field-level telemetry reduce risk and enable LLM-driven tooling
• Practical ways to expose queries as MCP tools and start with internal “agentic DevOps”
• Tactics for experiments and personalization that stay fast and measurable at scale
• Why an end-to-end approach (client and server) matters for reliability and speed

Guest: Matt DeBergalis, CEO and Co-Founder of Apollo GraphQL

Matt DeBergalis is the Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder of Apollo GraphQL, focused on bringing the popular GraphQL technology to the enterprise. He previously served as Apollo's CTO, leading product and engineering. Matt's longtime focus has been in open source and platforms: he co-founded Meteor.js, which grew to become one of the most popular open-source projects in the world for developing full-stack web apps with JavaScript, as well as ActBlue, the American political fundraising platform that revolutionized grassroots political giving. He attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and resides in the San Francisco Bay Area with his family. In his spare time, Matt enjoys taking to the air and flying his 1966 Beechcraft Baron.

Apollo GraphQL, website

Apollo GraphQL, GitHub

Apollo GraphQL, LinkedIn

Apollo GraphQL, X

Apollo GraphQL, YouTube

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• Free Software Foundation
• Cursor
• Motley Fool podcast
• GraphQL Summit

Ever wondered how many “perfect” candidates simply learned the test—or how many great engineers get filtered out by bad interview design? Mike Mroczka, interview coach and ex-Googler, shares what really goes on behind technical hiring and how to navigate it to your advantage.

What you’ll learn:

• How leaked question banks and standardized puzzles can distort hiring signals - and where they still help
• Practical ways companies can make interviews fairer and harder to game, both on-site and remote
• A balanced take on data structures and algorithms: when they’re useful and when they’re noise
• Tactics to spot and reduce cheating without turning interviews into surveillance
• How to structure interviews for different seniority levels so you measure the right skills
• Salary negotiation playbook: timing, leverage, and common pitfalls that cost candidates real money
• Getting past the application black hole: skipping recruiters, networking that works, and coordinating offers

Who this helps:

• Engineers tired of grinding puzzles who want a smarter prep plan
• Hiring managers looking to improve signal and reduce false negatives
• Anyone preparing to negotiate an offer with confidence

Guest: Mike Mroczka, Primary author of Beyond Cracking the Coding Interview, Ex-Google

Mike Mroczka, a former senior SWE (Google, Salesforce, GE), is now a tech consultant with a decade of experience helping engineers land their dream jobs. He’s a top-rated mentor (interviewing.io, Karat, Pathrise, Skilledinc) and the author of viral technical content on system design and technical interview strategies featured on HackerNews, Business Insider, and Wired.

Mike Mroczka, website

Beyond Cracking the Coding Interview

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• Cracking the Coding Interview by Gayle Laakmann McDowell
• HackerOne
• Interviewing.io
• Cluely
• Google glass
• Ray-Ban
• HackerRank⁠
• CodeSignal⁠

Is Postgres actually a better message queue than Kafka? This provocative question is just one of many insights Pete Hunt shares in this conversation about data orchestration, platform engineering, and the evolution of infrastructure.

Pete Hunt, CEO of Dagster Labs and former React co-founder at Facebook, brings his unique perspective from working at tech giants like Instagram and Twitter to discuss how different platform team approaches impact product development. Having witnessed both Facebook's clear delineation between product and infrastructure teams and Twitter's DevOps-style ownership model, Pete offers valuable comparisons of these contrasting philosophies.

The conversation explores:

• How Dagster provides a higher-level abstraction for data teams, making it easier to track and debug data assets rather than just managing workflows
• The challenges of modern data platforms and why many organizations struggle with complex, distributed systems that could be simplified
• A practical approach to migrating from Airflow to Dagster with their "Airlift" toolkit that allows for incremental, low-risk transitions
• How AI development is fueling demand for better data orchestration as companies build applications that rely on properly managed data pipelines

Pete also shares his thoughtful approach to balancing technical debt and product development with a "quarter on, quarter off" cadence that allows teams to both ship features and clean up the inevitable corners that get cut under deadline pressure.

For platform engineers, data teams, and technical leaders navigating the intersection of infrastructure and AI, this episode provides practical insights on creating abstractions that deliver real operational value without unnecessary complexity.

Guest: Pete Hunt, CEO of Dagster

Pete is the CEO of Dagster Labs, where he first joined as Head of Engineering in early 2022 and transitioned into the CEO role later that same year. Before Dagster, Pete co-founded Smyte, an anti-abuse startup acquired by Twitter, where he continued as a senior staff engineer.

Earlier in his career, Pete was one of the first engineers to work on Instagram after its acquisition by Facebook in 2012. There, he led development on Instagram’s web and analytics teams and became a co-founder of the React.js project, helping transform an internal experiment into one of the most widely used front-end frameworks in the world. He was also part of the early community around GraphQL and has remained deeply engaged in open source and developer tooling.

Pete brings a pragmatic, hands-on perspective to modern data infrastructure. Having been both a founder and an engineer, he focuses on reducing complexity and fatigue in data teams by building tools that actually work together. At Dagster, he remains close to the code and actively involved in technical decisions, combining leadership with deep technical fluency.

Pete Hunt, X

Dagster

Dagster Pipes

Dagster Airlift

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• React
• “Postgres: a Better Message Queue than Kafka?”

Cloud lock-in isn't just about where your data lives—it's about how deeply cloud-specific code permeates your applications. Mark Fussell, co-creator of Dapr and CEO of Diagrid, joins Cory O'Daniel to explore how Dapr provides clean abstractions for common distributed system patterns, enabling teams to build portable applications without sacrificing cloud-native capabilities.

The conversation covers:

• How Dapr creates a clean separation between application code and underlying infrastructure services like messaging, state management, and secrets
• Why platform teams struggle with tight coupling between applications and infrastructure, and how Dapr solves this problem
• The benefits of Dapr's sidecar architecture for local development, testing, and production environments
• How Dapr automatically handles cross-cutting concerns like security, observability, and resiliency without boilerplate code
• Introduction to Dapr's workflow engine for durable execution and the emerging world of stateful AI agents

Whether you're a platform engineer struggling with cloud lock-in or a developer tired of rewriting code for different infrastructures, this conversation demonstrates how Dapr can simplify your distributed systems while maintaining access to the unique capabilities of each cloud provider.

Guest: Mark Fussell, Co-founder of Dapr and CEO of Diagrid

Mark Fussell is the CEO of Diagrid, a cutting-edge company that simplifies building and scaling cloud-native applications. As the co-founder of Dapr (Distributed Application Runtime), Mark has played a pivotal role in shaping the future of modern application development by empowering developers to build resilient, distributed systems with ease. With decades of experience in the software industry, Mark has been a driving force behind innovative solutions that bridge the gap between developers and complex infrastructure.

Diagrid

Dapr

Links to interesting things from this episode:

• "XML Bible" by Elliotte Rusty Harold
• OpenTelemetry
• SPIFFE
• DataGalaxy case study
• Cloud Native Computing Foundation