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New Kinship

New Kinship

By: David Frank and TJ Espinoza
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 Welcome to New Kinship, where we are exploring and renewing ideas of belonging, desire, and being a neighbor in the Kingdom of Jesus. Together we are pursuing the communion and shalom of the church and the world. Pull up a chair and join the conversation!

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Episodes
  • #75 - Christian-Jewish Kinship and Theology: Dan Hummel on Christian Zionism

    #75 - Christian-Jewish Kinship and Theology: Dan Hummel on Christian Zionism
    Jan 21 2026
    David Frank and TJ talked with historian Dr. Dan Hummel about why many Evangelical Christians support the modern state of Israel—and its implications for kinship between Christians and Jews. Dan traces the theological roots of Christian Zionism, the rise of dispensational theology, and some political and social effects we see today. We also covered how Christians have related to Jewish communities more broadly, and what kinship can or should look like for us, going forward.★ About Our GuestDaniel G. Hummel is the director of the Lumen Center in Madison, WI and a research fellow in the History Department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He received his PhD in American Religious History from UW-Madison. He is the author of The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism: How the Evangelical Battle Over the End Times Shaped a Nation (Eerdmans, 2023) and *Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli Relations* (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2019). You can also find him at www.danielghummel.com.—★ Timestamps00:00 #75 - Christian-Jewish Kinship and Theology: Dan Hummel on Christian Zionism03:24 Dan’s history with Israel and Evangelicals09:50 Ask an academic: define “evangelical”13:47 Ask an academic: define “Christian Zionism”17:31 Christian Zionism goes back to the 16th century20:54 What IS dispensationalism?25:13 Dispensationalism: So, is God a polygamist?28:08 What does “supporting Israel” mean to Christian Zionists?33:04 Zionism also relates: Judeo-Christian values, anti-Islam, American politics39:21 What theology is needed, to be pro-peace for Israel/Palestine? 47:27 How can, and should, Christians think about their relationship to Jews? 01:00:50 Final thoughts: What we hold sacred—★ Links and References* The “Bebbington Quadrilateral” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Bebbington* For some of the political dynamics to Christian Zionism, see Dr. Hummel’s article in New Lines Magazine on the political unrest in Israel, pre-Oct 7: newlinesmag.com/argument/israels-current-crisis-exposes-christian-zionisms-contradictory-ideals* For some theological and interfaith dimensions of Christian Zionism, see Dr. Hummel’s 2018 essay for Aeon: aeon.co/essays/christian-zionism-the-interfaith-movement-hiding-in-plain-sight* G. Douglas Young, the founder of Bridges for Peace, a prominent Christian Zionist organization, wrote The Bride and the Wife (1960).—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support || Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship—★ Credits || Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, gavinpopkenart.com ★ Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe
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    1 hr and 7 mins
  • "If We Say We Love LGBT People..." - Taka Chan on College Ministry and Faithfulness

    "If We Say We Love LGBT People..." - Taka Chan on College Ministry and Faithfulness
    Dec 31 2025

    Taka Chan has been a queer, celibate Christian in campus ministry long enough to have seen both deep friendships and losses. He joined David and TJ to share stories of friends, pastors, and communities who have walked with him—and those who haven’t. We hope you’re encouraged by his reflections on God’s provision, even in the midst of uncertainty about what comes next.

    Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

    About Our Guest

    Taka Chan was born and raised in rural Hawaiʻi and has been working in college campus ministry for 18 years. He loves gardening, cooking for large groups of people, and taking classes at the Y with a bunch of grandmas. Ask him about his recent TV binges (The Pitt, Pachinko, Abbott Elementary) and what homework he’d suggest if you intend to visit Hawaiʻi. You can email him at [takachanaloha -at- gmail.com].

    —

    ★ Timestamps

    (00:00) #74 - “If We Say We Love LGBT People...” Taka Chan on College Ministry and Faithfulness

    (01:11) Taka Chan: Hawai’i, family, coming out to myself and others

    (06:55) College in the time of ex-gay thought

    (11:55) “I try to be gentle with my younger self”

    (18:00) Single and married to everyone

    (23:49) Pastors going to bat for you

    (32:02) What do you do when friendships fail?

    (41:30) Evangelical ministry: If we’re saying we love LGBT people...how?

    (56:17) An employee resource group: we won’t be frozen in fear any more

    (01:00:46) Intersections: Being queer, being Japanese and Chinese

    (01:07:52) Why are you not Side A?

    (01:11:55) Being an “elder” in the Side B movement, and those who came before

    (01:15:20) What’s the future for you? (Intentional community?)

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    ★ Links and References

    Two Views on Homosexuality, the Bible, and the Church (2016)

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    ★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!:

    Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship or newkinship.substack.com

    —

    ★ Credits

    Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, gavinpopkenart.com ★



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    1 hr and 20 mins
  • BONUS - Catching up with Zach, 6 Months Later

    BONUS - Catching up with Zach, 6 Months Later
    Dec 11 2025

    Sometimes--as in the case of Rev. Zach from Ep. 73--we record an episode with folks and then, before we can release it, life takes interesting turns. Since talking to us 6 months ago, Zach is in the process of leaving the Episcopal denomination in the US and considering his ministerial call in a new way. He stopped by (metaphorically) to update us and share some more thoughts. We’re grateful for his ongoing discernment and willingness to bring us along!



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    25 mins
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