What makes work truly meaningful, and how do our daily interactions shape the cultures we live and work in? This thought-provoking conversation with Josephine Wong and Daniel Szuc reveals powerful insights from their 26-year journey researching human-centered design and workplace transformation.

After noticing a troubling disconnect between the empathy preached in human-centered design and the actual behaviors of practitioners, Jo and Daniel embarked on a mission to understand how we might create more meaningful work experiences. Their research culminated in two groundbreaking books: "Make Meaningful Work: From Sleepwalking to Sparkle" and "Make Meaningful Culture: Healthy, Intentional Conduct in Moments That Matter," with a third focused on education in progress.

At the heart of their philosophy lies a simple yet profound idea: culture is created through "how you conduct yourselves in the interactions and relationships between people in moments that matter." Rather than abstract theories, they offer practical frameworks for identifying, inspecting, and improving specific behaviors that create healthy or unhealthy conduct chains. Their SPARKLE framework—Supportive, Proactive, Adaptable, Respect, Kind, Listening, and Engaged—provides a memorable structure for intentional conduct.

What distinguishes their approach is its practicality. While many self-help and business culture books leave readers wondering "what do I actually do with this?", Jo and Daniels methodology pinpoints specific moments for intervention and encourages small, achievable actions. This bridges the crucial gap between knowing and doing that derails most change efforts.

Their most powerful advice? "It's not all about you. Be curious about other people, be curious about other cultures. Don't get caught up with narrow narratives." By expanding our perspectives, connecting dots between diverse ideas, and taking intentional action, we shape not only our personal narratives but contribute to healthier collective experiences.

Ready to transform your work experience from sleepwalking to sparkle? Discover how intentional conduct in moments that matter can create meaningful change in your workplace, relationships, and beyond.

Chapter Markers

• 0:16 It's Not All About You
• 1:18 Introduction to the Podcast
• 4:09 Meeting Josephine Wong and Daniel Szuc
• 10:01 Defining Meaningful Work
• 21:43 Make Meaningful Work and Culture
• 32:08 From Words to Practical Action
• 43:08 Make Meaningful Education
• 48:22 Advice for Listeners

Contact Dan and Jo

www.makemeaningfulwork.com

www.apogeehk.com

LI: www.linkedin.com/in/danielszuc/

LI: www.linkedin.com/in/josephine-wong-6801922/

Contact Vincent

Pro Coach: https://procoach.app/vincent-hiscox
Email: vincent.hiscox@outlook.com
LinkedIn: Vincent Hiscox