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Liminal Living

Liminal Living

By: Dr. Thomas J Rundel
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 Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr. Tom Rundel, and it's my pleasure to serve as your guide through these uncharted territories. With a doctoral background in spirituality and leadership from Portland Seminary, my research has centered on the spirituality found in the narratives of liminality in the Bible, but I have expanded my research to include other faith traditions and cognitive science. Since our launch in 2023, we've been dedicated to exploring the nuances of dark nights and deconstructions, but our journey expanded to include insights from a diverse array of modern-day thinkers and artists. Through a blend of stories, practices, and perspectives, we provide valuable guidance for fellow travelers navigating their own liminal spaces. So, join us as we embark on this journey and embrace the uncertainty in order to uncover the hidden wisdom that lies within the liminal spaces of life.All rights reserved Christianity Philosophy Social Sciences Spirituality
Episodes
  • 161: Tom Rundel: Where is God When the System Fails You?

    161: Tom Rundel: Where is God When the System Fails You?
    Mar 11 2026
    Follow the Drinking Gourd: A Map Encoded in Song Tom opens with his love of astronomy and the Big Dipper, tracing it to the African American folk song "Follow the Drinking Gourd" — a secret map taught to enslaved people escaping north on the Underground Railroad. The stars, the rivers, and the mysterious guide Peg Leg Joe become an extended metaphor for the kind of liberation the Woman at the Well is seeking. Setting the Scene: Why Jesus "Had To" Go Through Samaria By the time Jesus heads north in John 4, he's already overturned the temple economy and rattled religious authorities. Tom unpacks why most Jewish travelers avoided Samaria entirely — doubling a three-day journey to seven — and why the text's insistence that Jesus had to go through Samaria signals something theologically deliberate, not logistically necessary. 700 Years of Animosity: The Jew-Samaritan Divide Tom traces the deep historical roots of Jewish-Samaritan hostility — from the fall of the Northern Kingdom in 722 BC, through Assyrian resettlement, the destruction of the Samaritan temple on Mount Gerizim, and the desecration of the Jerusalem temple — showing that Jesus was walking into centuries of compounded grievance and mutual contempt. A Woman at Noon: Double Exile Jesus arrives at the well at midday and waits. Tom explains that women drew water in the morning — coming at noon meant this woman wasn't welcome at the communal gathering. She's already an outcast within an outcast community: doubly exiled, doubly marginalized. Rereading the Five Husbands: Levirate Marriage and Courageous Faith Tom challenges the traditional "woman searching for love in all the wrong places" reading entirely. Through the lens of Levirate marriage law — in which a widow was passed to her late husband's brothers to produce an heir — he reframes her story as one of faithfully following every rule and finding the system failed her anyway. Drawing a parallel to Tamar in Genesis, Tom argues she isn't a cautionary tale about sin; she's asking the oldest theological question: Where is God when the system has failed you? Worship in Spirit and Truth: Dismantling Geographic Holiness When the woman asks about the mountain debate — Gerizim or Jerusalem — Tom argues she isn't deflecting. She's asking whether there's any avenue left for someone barred from all the accepted paths to God. Jesus's answer — that God is worshiped in spirit and truth, not geography — is a revolutionary dismantling of every gatekeeping system organized around sacred buildings and in-group access. "I AM": The Divine Name Spoken to the Most Marginalized Jesus speaks his most stunning self-disclosure — the divine name I AM from the burning bush — not to Nicodemus, not to the disciples, but to this woman at a well at noon in Samaria. Tom connects this to Moses's commissioning in the wilderness and shows how the same words now send her on an identical mission: go lead an exodus. Photini: Light-Bearer and Spiritual Mother The Eastern Orthodox Church honors this woman with the name Photini — "light." The town that excluded her now listens to her. She has no son, yet she becomes the spiritual mother of an entire community. Tom closes by returning to the drinking gourd image: we are not the North Star, just the constellation that helps people find it. SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off) Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise) ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminallivingFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0owFollow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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    30 mins
  • 160: Tom Rundel: Pretense is the Enemy of the Spiritual Life

    160: Tom Rundel: Pretense is the Enemy of the Spiritual Life
    Mar 4 2026

    In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the deeper meanings and contexts surrounding the famous biblical verse John 3:16, discussing its historical significance, the character of Nicodemus, and the spiritual journey of understanding faith. He emphasizes the importance of context in scripture, the role of doubt in faith, and the transformative practices of Lent as a means to deepen one's spiritual life.

    takeaways

    • John 3:16 became famous through a man with a rainbow wig.
    • The context of scripture is crucial for understanding its meaning.
    • Nicodemus approached Jesus out of curiosity and a desire for truth.
    • Nighttime symbolizes a space for honest questioning in faith.
    • Doubt can drive deeper spiritual inquiry and understanding.
    • Spirituality involves seeing interconnected layers of reality.
    • The kingdom of God is within every human heart.
    • Lent invites us to explore our true selves without pretense.
    • Transformation requires letting go of old understandings.
    • Practices during Lent can help cultivate a deeper spiritual life.

    Sponsors
    Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)

    Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)

    Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

    Connect
    Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/

    Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving

    Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow

    Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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    27 mins
  • 159: Tom Rundel: The Devil Wears Vestments

    159: Tom Rundel: The Devil Wears Vestments
    Feb 25 2026

    In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the significance of Lent as a time for spiritual recalibration and intentional practices. He emphasizes the importance of understanding hunger versus appetite, the experience of mortality through hunger, and the temptations faced by Jesus. The discussion culminates in an invitation for personal reflection and growth during Lent, highlighting the power of love over the love of power.

    takeaways

    Lent serves as an annual recalibration of our habits and patterns.

    Intentional practices during Lent can help cultivate virtues.

    Understanding the difference between hunger and appetite is crucial.

    Experiencing hunger connects us to our mortality and need for community.

    The temptations of Jesus illustrate recurring human struggles with power and control.

    Lent invites us to reflect on what we truly desire and need.

    The power of love is greater than the love of power.

    We are called to embrace our vulnerability and neediness.

    Lent is a time to displace negative habits with positive practices.

    Holistic growth during Lent can encompass physical, mental, and spiritual well-being.

    Chapters

    00:00 Lent: A Time for Recalibration

    03:35 Intentional Practices for Lent

    06:24 Understanding Hunger vs. Appetite

    12:17 The Wilderness Experience

    18:17 The Temptations of Jesus

    30:08 The Power of Love Over Power

    35:57 Invitation to Lent Practices

    Sponsors
    Quoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off)

    Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)

    Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)

    Connect
    Find us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/

    Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving

    Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow

    Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
    Show More Show Less
    36 mins
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