What happens when the calling that once defined you no longer feels sustainable? When the work you love begins to cost you more than you can carry?

For many ministry leaders, the hardest battles are not theological. They are personal. Emotional. Quiet. And often fought alone.

In this episode, Matt Davis sits down with Don Ross, former pastor and founder of Manhood Tribes, to talk about why so many men struggle in silence, especially during seasons of ministry transition.

After two decades in large evangelical church leadership, Don stepped away - not because he stopped loving Jesus, but because the system was breaking him.

What followed was a difficult transition marked by uncertainty, financial pressure, and identity questions that many ministry leaders quietly face. This conversation pulls back the curtain on isolation, addiction, shame, and the deep need for brotherhood.

If you are navigating transition, questioning your direction, or responsible for leading others through change, this episode offers both clarity and hope.

No man should have to walk alone.

• Ministry leadership can be both deeply fulfilling and profoundly exhausting at the same time.
• Many church systems unintentionally isolate pastors rather than care for them.
• Churches often struggle to reach men because they build connection models that don’t align with how men bond.
• Pornography addiction thrives in isolation and shame, even among pastors.
• Bringing struggle into the light is the first step toward freedom.
• Transition seasons destabilize identity, especially around provision and purpose.
• Intentional, challenge-based brotherhood can anchor men during seasons of uncertainty.

00:00 – Introduction and framing the conversation about men 01:00 – Don’s ministry journey and transition 06:00 – The celebrity pastor model and systemic pressure 08:00 – Why churches struggle to reach men 16:00 – The five marks of manhood 19:00 – Pornography, shame, and isolation 24:00 – How tribes work differently than typical men’s groups 31:00 – Financial pressure and identity in transition 37:00 – Fulfillment after leaving vocational ministry

Ready to take your next step? Visit MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call about an upcoming transition, termination, or succession. Explore Don’s resources at ManhoodTribes.com and take the quiz at HowManlyAreYou.com. If this episode helped you, consider donating to support leaders navigating transition.

Is there really a difference between ministry and the marketplace? Or have we created a divide that Scripture never intended?

In this episode, Curt Swindoll shares insights from 40 years of leadership across nonprofit, church, and for-profit environments.

Having transitioned multiple times - sometimes with a plan, sometimes without - Curt challenges the assumption that ministry is something we leave behind.

Instead, he invites leaders to rethink their posture toward God, especially during seasons of uncertainty.

For leaders navigating burnout, succession, or vocational transition, this conversation reframes the journey.

The issue is not whether you are in ministry or business. The deeper issue is whether you are living for God or with Him.

And that distinction changes everything.

• There is no sacred-secular divide. God is as present in the marketplace as in the church.
• Burnout often reveals a “for God” posture that has replaced a “with God” relationship.
• Transitions are rarely clean; God’s presence is not dependent on clarity.
• Work is one of the primary places of spiritual formation.
• Discernment is not about finding one perfect path but learning to journey wisely with God.
• Succession is less about ending ministry and more about shifting where and how ministry happens.
• Peace and freedom are often the deeper invitation beneath vocational change.

00:00 – Is There Really Life After Ministry? 02:30 – Sacred vs. Secular: A False Divide 07:00 – Transitioning Without a Plan 10:00 – Life With God vs. Life For God 15:00 – Burnout and Identity in Ministry 21:00 – The Role of Spiritual Formation and Marriage 24:00 – Moving Between Ministry and Marketplace 29:00 – God at the Door in Seasons of Anxiety 33:00 – Lessons from a Lifetime of Ministry Transitions 43:00 – Succession, Discernment, and “Never Say Never” 50:00 – Practical Resources and Final Encouragement

If this conversation stirred something in you - whether you're navigating a leadership transition, discerning succession, or simply longing to experience more of a life with God - there are a few trusted next steps.

For confidential support and guidance through ministry transitions, visit https://ministrytransitions.com.

To explore spiritual formation resources and connect with trained spiritual directors, go to https://graftedlife.org.

And if you're leading an organization and want clarity, traction, and a healthier operating rhythm, learn more about EOS at https://www.eosworldwide.com or connect directly with Curt at https://www.eosworldwide.com/curt-swindoll. Wherever you are in your journey, you don’t have to walk it alone.

What if the biggest lie Christian leaders believe is that ministry only happens inside church walls?

When pastors and nonprofit leaders transition into the marketplace, many feel like they’ve stepped out of calling and into something lesser. But that assumption may be the very thing limiting the Church’s influence.

In this episode, we talk with Chuck Proudfit about faith at work, succession challenges, leadership continuity, and why Christians must rethink the sacred-secular divide.

This conversation reframes work as worship and challenges leaders to build legacy that outlives them.

• Work is not secular space. It is strategic deployment.
• The sacred-secular divide quietly undermines Christian leadership.
• Most succession failures begin long before the transition announcement.
• Boards must proactively ask leaders about their 10-year vision.
• Continuity requires infrastructure, not just inspiration.
• Community shapes faith at work more effectively than content alone.
• Leadership legacy must include both personal and organizational clarity.

00:00 – Introduction and Chuck’s faith journey 03:15 – Work as worship and the sacred-secular divide 06:44 – Faith in consulting and marketplace leadership 07:33 – Why church transitions struggle 10:13 – Organic ministry in the workplace 13:30 – The birth of At Work On Purpose 16:44 – Spiritual formation through work 19:05 – The Faith at Work Summit and future frontiers 20:43 – Continuity, succession, and leadership legacy 25:15 – Invitation to the Summit

If you are navigating a leadership transition, preparing for succession, or reimagining how faith integrates with your everyday work, take your next step today. Visit https://ministrytransitions.com to schedule a confidential conversation about your transition, explore how faith and work come together at https://atworkonpurpose.org/, and learn more about the global Faith at Work Summit at https://faithatworksummit2026.com/. Whether you are leaving vocational ministry, leading through change, or building what comes next, you do not have to do it alone.

Most ministry leaders expect relief after stepping away. What they don’t expect is the wilderness to begin after the resignation.

In this honest conversation, Dustin Kleinschmidt shares how years of crisis leadership, misaligned values, and unresolved grief led to burnout, anxiety, and a deep reckoning with faith.

Rather than rushing toward resolution, Dustin invites leaders to reconsider what the wilderness is actually for.

This episode reframes suffering, challenges Christian shortcuts around pain, and offers language for leaders who feel stuck between obedience and disappointment.

If you’ve ever wondered whether you missed God or why healing is taking so long, this conversation meets you right where you are.

• Burnout is often the result of long-term erosion, not one failure
• Healthy systems can’t sustain you in an unhealthy environment
• The wilderness often begins after the role ends
• Spiritual bypassing keeps leaders disconnected from their real pain
• Value misalignment creates invisible but constant friction
• Healing doesn’t mean closure or clarity
• God’s presence in the wilderness matters more than getting out of it

• 00:00 – Dustin’s ministry journey and early formation
• 03:30 – Crisis leadership and long-term erosion
• 06:20 – When sustainability quietly disappears
• 09:30 – Why good systems still fail in toxic environments
• 11:20 – Entering the wilderness after resignation
• 15:20 – Spiritual bypassing and emotional honesty
• 18:30 – The Exodus, expectations, and disappointment with God
• 24:00 – Living faithfully without resolution
• 28:15 – The Wilderness Way: book, workbook, and music

If you’re in the wilderness and looking for faithful companions along the way, explore The Wilderness Way and Ministry Transitions. Together, they offer resources to help you live honestly with God in hard seasons and engage Scripture with deeper historical and spiritual clarity. Learn more at https://thewildernessway.com and https://thejewishroad.com.

Stepping away from leadership is rarely just a strategic decision. It’s personal. Emotional. Spiritual. Especially for founders and long-term leaders who have poured their lives into a ministry.

In this episode, Jim West reflects on what it meant to hand off leadership of the Barnabas Group, a ministry he helped build and lead for over two decades.

Just weeks after that transition, Jim was diagnosed with cancer, forcing him into a season of surrender he never planned.

This conversation explores succession, identity, grief, and trust. It’s an honest look at what happens when God asks you to release what you love, and how unexpected seasons can become some of the most formative and meaningful of your life.

• Succession is not an emergency plan. It’s a discipleship issue.
• Founders often grieve more than they expect when they step away.
• A ministry continuing without you can be a sign of health, not failure.
• Forced stillness can protect both leaders and organizations.
• Identity untethered from role allows for deeper trust in God.
• Life after ministry can be fuller, not smaller.
• Transitions require guides, not just decisions.

• 00:00 – Jim’s path into the Barnabas Group
• 03:30 – Recognizing the need for succession
• 05:20 – Passing the baton and receiving a cancer diagnosis
• 07:40 – Watching the ministry grow without him
• 11:50 – Faith, cancer, and spiritual clarity
• 16:00 – Discovering life and ministry after leadership
• 27:10 – Advice for leaders facing transition

If you or your organization are facing a leadership transition, visit ministrytransitions.com to book a confidential conversation and get support that protects people, preserves purpose, and plans wisely for what’s next.

Most ministry transitions don’t happen suddenly. They happen slowly, quietly, and later than they should.

In this season-ending episode, we reflect on the patterns Ministry Transitions has seen over the past year while walking with pastors, boards, nonprofits, and faith-driven organizations.

From delayed conversations to the quiet crisis of succession, this episode names the realities leaders often feel but rarely say out loud.

It’s an honest look at why transitions feel so heavy, why waiting makes them harder, and how support can change the outcome entirely.

This is not a forecast for what’s next. It’s a grounded invitation to name what’s already here and walk through it with wisdom, care, and courage.

• Most transitions happen later than they should, not because of neglect but misplaced protection
• Waiting does not make transitions easier. It makes them more expensive
• Succession planning is about stewardship, not replacement
• Ministry transitions extend far beyond the church into nonprofits and faith-driven organizations
• Many leaders engage support only after the ending has already occurred
• Leaders are often relieved, not resistant, when care is offered
• Support consistently changes outcomes for leaders and organizations

• 00:00 – When transition feels unfinished
• 05:20 – Why transitions are happening too late
• 11:10 – Succession as a silent crisis
• 17:30 – Ministry beyond the church walls
• 23:45 – Why people listen quietly
• 29:10 – What happens when leaders are offered support
• 35:40 – Why support changes outcomes

If you’re in a transition, leading others through one, or want to help someone who didn’t see this coming, visit MinistryTransitions.com to book a confidential call, explore resources, or give toward supporting a leader in transition. You don’t have to walk this alone.

At some point in ministry, we start confusing busyness for faithfulness. We tell ourselves that exhaustion is just the cost of obedience - that being needed, stretched thin, and constantly available somehow means we’re doing it right.

But deep down, we know something’s wrong.

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt Davis sits down with his longtime friend Andrew Hartman to talk about what happens when time becomes our boss. Andrew shares how his own burnout - marked by real physical breakdown - became the turning point that changed his relationship with time and work forever.

This isn’t a conversation about calendars or to-do lists. It’s about trust, limits, and the grace of learning how to stop before it’s too late. For anyone in ministry who’s running on empty, this one might be preventative - so you never have to live life after ministry.

• Being busy for God is not the same as being faithful to Him.
• Stress isn’t proof of calling; it’s often a signal of fear or misplaced trust.
• Burnout is your body’s declaration of bankruptcy - an invitation to reorganize your life.
• Ministry culture often rewards overwork, but Jesus modeled a rhythm of rest and presence.
• True stewardship includes managing time as a sacred resource, not an endless debt.
• Building trust with time begins by creating small, consistent commitment plans.
• You don’t have to burn out to be fruitful. The work of God is sustained by the peace of God.

• 00:00 – Matt and Andrew reconnect after 20 years
• 01:43 – When “busy for God” became burnout
• 05:18 – The body declares bankruptcy on stress
• 07:03 – Solving the time problem
• 09:21 – Is burnout a failure or a signal?
• 13:52 – Fear, faith, and our emotional relationship with time
• 17:24 – How “commitment plans” build peace
• 19:10 – Leading others in stewardship of time
• 23:48 – What life looks like on the other side of burnout
• 26:33 – Teams that heal their pace together

• Learn more, donate, or schedule a confidential transition call at MinistryTransitions.com
• Explore Andrew Hartman’s resources - free masterclass, coaching, and tools - at TimeBoss.us

Most pastors imagine ministry as a lifelong calling, until something shifts - slowly, painfully, or all at once.

In this episode, Brad Gray and Brad Nelson share their unfiltered stories of leaving pastoral ministry, wrestling through uncertainty, and discovering the faithful presence of God in seasons where nothing made sense.

Their journeys reveal how transitions can expose hidden wounds, force honest discernment, and ultimately reshape our understanding of calling.

From uprooting a thriving teaching pastor role with no job on the other side, to the quiet unraveling that nearly cost a marriage, both men walk through the tension, grief, and surprising grace that comes when God invites you into a future you can’t yet see.

And at the center of their healing is a rediscovery of the Lord’s Prayer - not as a childhood memory, but as a daily blueprint for partnering with God.

This conversation is hope for the discouraged, a mirror for the exhausted, and a companion for anyone wondering whether there is life after ministry. There is. And it might be more expansive than you expect.

• How God can initiate a transition long before you understand it.
• Why community and spiritual friends are essential during vocational upheaval.
• What happens when the pain of staying becomes greater than the fear of leaving.
• How unaddressed wounds from ministry begin to surface during transitions.
• Why the Lord’s Prayer is a daily blueprint for grounding, clarity, and direction.
• The difference between assignment and calling in a leader’s life.
• How God works slowly, quietly, and faithfully in seasons that feel stalled.

00:00 – Introductions and the two Brads 01:10 – Brad Gray’s unexpected call away from a thriving church 03:45 – Moving to Nashville without a plan 07:00 – Brad Nelson’s painful exit from church planting 09:35 – How ministries unravel marriages and identities 12:30 – Discernment, tension, and the pivot point 14:30 – When pain forces change 20:00 – The Lord’s Prayer as a blueprint for life 25:43 – Kingdom, calling, and partnering with God 29:09 – The making of the film and book 33:06 – How churches can use the new resources 38:30 – What they would say to their former selves 42:49 – Is there life after ministry? 43:40 – Final thoughts and blessing

Your story is not over. In fact, this may be the first time in years that God finally has the space to show you who you are beyond what you do.

If you’re navigating a transition, facing a forced resignation, preparing for succession, or simply unraveling quietly under the weight of ministry, reach out. You don’t have to make these decisions alone.

Visit https://ministrytransitions.com to schedule a confidential conversation or to give toward a leader who is carrying more than they can name.

And if you want to explore the formative power of the Lord’s Prayer as a companion in this season, engage the resources at https://thelordsprayer.com. They offer a film, a forthcoming episodic series, and a new book designed to walk with you as God leads you into what’s next.

There is life after ministry. And God is already in the future preparing it for you.