Leaders often rely on quick decisions and familiar patterns, but lasting impact requires something deeper. Transformation begins when we quiet the noise, notice what is happening in the moment, and open ourselves to what is emerging. Presencing mastery offers a way to unlock clarity, trust, and authentic connection.

In this conversation on the Leading with Instinct podcast, Katie Navarra-Bradley, Professional Facilitator and Leadership Coach with Katie the Coach, and Ginny Telego, President of Collaboration Partners, are joined by Lissa Pohl, Chief Engagement Officer at the Engagement Quotient and a pioneer in Equine Assisted Learning (EAL).

Drawing from her recent article in the International Journal of Presencing Leadership and Coaching, Lissa explains how presencing moves beyond mindfulness and presence, offering a path to access deeper somatic and relational intelligence. The focus turns to how horses act as clean feedback experts, showing leaders how to disrupt default behaviors, shift from predatory to relational approaches, and practice leading from the future that wants to emerge.

These small shifts help leaders build resilience, foster trust, and create the space for genuine transformation in their organizations and relationships.

The Leading With Instinct Podcast is brought to you by Collaboration Partners and KatieTheCoach.com.

Takeaways

-Presencing is deeper than mindfulness. It’s accessing a state of stillness where new possibilities can emerge.

-Horses model presence naturally and offer clean, non-judgmental feedback.

-Equine Assisted Learning brings leadership concepts from the head into the whole body.

-Relational leadership shifts us away from unconscious predatory habits.

-Leaders must integrate intellectual, emotional, physical, and spiritual intelligence.

-Clean feedback creates calm, clarity, and authentic learning.

-Presencing helps leaders respond in the moment rather than relying on old patterns.

-Everyday practices like pausing, observing, and asking curious questions build presencing skills.

-These approaches create clarity and connection even in complex situations.

Chapters

00:40 Introduction/Meet Lissa Pohl

3:10 Unpacking Presencing Mastery

08:00 The Body as Intelligence

15:09: Learning Presencing from Horses

22:00 Horses as Clean Feedback Experts

25:53 From Predatory to Relational Leadership

33:06 Practical Steps for Presencing

Helpful Links:

Article - The Effectiveness of Equine Assisted Learning to Develop Presencing Mastery : https://revues.ulaval.ca/ojs/index.php/ijplc/article/view/54168

Lissa Pohl, The Engagement Quotient: https://enqcoaching.com/

Ginny Telego, Collaboration Partners: https://www.thecollaborationpartners.com/

Katie Navarra-Bradley, Katie The Coach: https://katiethecoach.com/

You thought you explained it clearly. You handed off the project. But what came back wasn’t at all what you envisioned. Sound familiar? Whether you’re leading a team, onboarding new employees, or collaborating with clients, one truth remains: people can’t meet expectations that were never clearly set. And clarity isn’t just helpful—it’s essential.

In this conversation, Katie Navarra-Bradley, Professional Facilitator and Leadership Coach with Katie the Coach, and Ginny Telego, President of Collaboration Partners, explore the leadership blind spot that hinders productivity, fuels frustration, and undermines success: unclear expectations. What emerges is a practical, and energizing conversation about bridging the gap between what leaders expect and what teams deliver.

Through stories from the horse arena, the workplace, and their own coaching and leadership experiences, Ginny and Katie unpack how assumption bias, generational shifts, time pressure, and poor communication keep leaders from setting their people up for success. They also offer real tools for change. You’ll find simple, effective ways to align your vision with your team’s actions and outcomes.

This is a reminder that no one performs well in the dark. Clear expectations fuel confident action. When leaders lead with clarity, context, and curiosity, everyone moves forward.

The Leading With Instinct Podcast is brought to you by Collaboration Partners and KatieTheCoach.com.

Takeaways

-Assumption bias often causes leaders to overestimate what others understand or know.

-Today’s workforce, especially Gen Z, craves clarity and context, not micromanagement.

-Without clearly defined success, frustration and rework are inevitable for both leaders and team members.

-Leaders often unintentionally skip the clarity step due to time pressure or lack of leadership training.

-Psychological safety is key: create a culture where asking for clarification is welcomed, not judged.

-Regular check-ins help reinforce expectations and prevent disconnects.

-Tools like kickoff meetings, shared language, and aligning daily tasks with big-picture goals foster ownership and engagement.

-Preparing people well is foundational, not optional, for strong performance and culture

Chapters

00:46 Preparing Expectations

04:35The Expectation Gap

12:46 Taking Time for Efficiency

15:04 Leadership Training for Leaders

19:44 Solutions to Clarify Expectations

22:38 Defining Success

32:44 Why Does This Matter?

35:44 Actionable Steps to Improve Clarity of Expectations

Helpful Links:

Ginny Telego, Collaboration Partners: https://www.thecollaborationpartners.com/

Katie Navarra-Bradley, Katie The Coach: https://katiethecoach.com/

There was a time when everyone wanted to be the boss. It was part of the career trajectory from the moment someone entered the workforce. That is changing. The next generation has seen what being “the boss” has meant to others, and seen the impact leadership has had, both in good and bad ways, on those around them. More and more, aspiring to leadership may not be the goal.

In this conversation, Katie Navarra-Bradley, Professional Facilitator and Leadership Coach with Katie the Coach, and Ginny Telego, President of Collaboration Partners, talk about the new phenomenon of 'conscious unbossing' and its implications for leadership in a cross-generational workforce.

They discuss why millennials and Gen Z are hesitant to take on leadership roles, the importance of mentorship, and how organizations can create engaging opportunities for emerging leaders. They correlate this behavior and the way business leaders may be responding to behavior that they see in their horses and in their equine-assisted workshops.

Katie and Ginny highlight the need for a paradigm shift in how leadership is perceived and developed, drawing parallels between human leadership dynamics and horse herd behavior.

The Leading With Instinct Podcast is brought to you by Collaboration Partners and KatieTheCoach.com.

Takeaways

-Conscious unbossing reflects a shift in how younger generations view leadership.

-72% of millennials prefer individual contributor roles over management.

-Leadership roles are often perceived as thankless and burdensome.-

-Mentorship plays a crucial role in preparing future leaders.

-Organizations need to create supportive cultures for leadership development.

-Engaging learning experiences can enhance leadership skills.

-Shared leadership models can alleviate the pressure on individual leaders.

-Confidence is key for younger generations to step into leadership roles.

-Work should be enjoyable and fulfilling for all employees.

-Understanding generational perspectives is essential for effective leadership.

Episode Resources:

“Why Gen Z is Saying No to Management”

https://www.kornferry.com/insights/this-week-in-leadership/why-gen-z-is-saying-no-to-management

“Conscious Unbossing: Rebuilding the Leadership Pipeline for a New Generation”

https://www.ddiworld.com/blog/conscious-unbossing

“No One Wants to Be a Leader”

https://www.fastcompany.com/91357457/why-its-still-great-to-be-a-leader

Chapters

00:38 Understanding Conscious Unbossing

08:36 The Impact of Generational Perspectives on Leadership

09:38 The Role of Mentorship in Leadership Development

11:58 Preparing the Next Generation of Leaders

14:35 Creating Engaging Leadership Opportunities

21:58 Examples through Equine Experiences

28:27 Action Steps for Emerging Leaders

36:12 Conclusion and Call to Action

Helpful Links:

Ginny Telego,...