Today, we are joined by Jeff Wenninger, a retired LAPD Lieutenant, a nationally recognized law enforcement expert and author of “On Thin Ice,” an analysis of how poor leadership and entrenched mindsets have eroded public trust in police.

Good policing requires standardization and training. The lack of standardized training nationwide is evident. Police academies across the nation vary significantly in required training hours, with the national average being about 800 hours. For context, a cosmetology license requires 1,500 hours of training. In contrast, Nordic countries train their police for two to three years and continuously monitor candidates to ensure they possess the necessary characteristics for success.

Often a department’s culture may not align with its standards. Law enforcement policies are only as effective as the culture that enforces them. Training must be assessed, and officers must be held accountable for their actions.

Proper police response requires self-awareness, both of the situation and how an officer’s actions can escalate or de-escalate an incident. Officers must ensure that any force used is proportional to the threat and the severity of the crime. Alternatives to force should always be considered, and training should instill this mindset rather than defaulting to force as the first solution. But there is often a disconnect between policy, practice, and culture—what Jeff refers to as the "policy-practice divide."

Many officers are not fully aware of the legal standards by which their use of force will be judged. Organizations should be responsible for ensuring their officers are not just trained, but competent and able to justify their decisions under stress.

Despite clear guidelines, the culture within some departments may foster a mentality where disobedience is met with excessive force—a “contempt of cop” attitude. This underscores the need for good judgment and accountability, both at the individual and organizational levels. Agencies must hold officers to high standards and not simply defend their actions because they are found to be legally justified.

Post-incident debriefs, modeled after those used by the Blue Angels, are critical for learning and improvement. These debriefs should happen soon after incidents and involve honest self-assessment and peer feedback.

Unfortunately, some leaders undermine trust by publicly defending officers before investigations are complete. True professionalism in law enforcement requires transparency, honest evaluation of incidents, and accountability at every level.

While only about 13% of the nation’s population is Black, the percentage of incarcerated Blacks can be as high as 50 %. The proportion of Black men on death row is significantly higher than that of whites.

Our guest, Courtney Teasley, a criminal defense lawyer, emphasizes the responsibility that defense attorneys have in contributing to incarceration rates. Some lawyers fail to communicate with clients, push plea deals without proper consultation, and neglect to use available court resources or file necessary motions.

This lack of diligence can result in missed opportunities for discovering evidence that could change the outcome of a trial. Courtney stresses that defense lawyers should fight for their clients and not simply “go along to get along,” especially in smaller counties where maintaining good relationships with judges is common practice.

Courtney described the DAMM community—Disproportionately Affected Marginalized Minority—as the primary demographic impacted by incarceration. Systemic factors such as inadequate education in financial literacy, criminal justice literacy, and civics contribute to this problem. Many individuals are not taught their rights or how to hold government officials accountable, nor are they given the tools to pursue financial stability beyond low-wage jobs.

These gaps leave people vulnerable to crimes of poverty and ill-equipped to navigate the legal system if accused. Having financial means, legal knowledge, and civic understanding provides leverage and empowerment, but these advantages are often unavailable in marginalized communities.

Courtney’s initiatives focus on legal literacy, financial literacy, and civics. She teaches these subjects through mock trial programs at high-priority schools and at HBCUs, aiming to address the lack of foundational legal knowledge. Her business, MFN, stands for Mindset, Finesse, and Non-Negotiable Boundaries, and is dedicated to advocacy training and lawyer coaching.

Courtney also discussed the school-to-prison pipeline, which refers to the disproportionate punishment of Black students in schools, which leads to higher rates of suspension and disciplinary actions that can lead to the juvenile justice system.

She advocates for empowering students through education in legal literacy, civics, and financial skills, noting that access to such knowledge and opportunities is often limited. Programs and curricula she develops aim to bridge these gaps and provide students with tools for legal and financial empowerment.

Ultimately, the need for competent, passionate lawyers in criminal defense is critical. The goal is not necessarily to achieve acquittals for all clients, but to ensure the state proves its case and to minimize negative impacts on individuals’ records and communities. Creative solutions, rehabilitation, and strategic partnerships are encouraged to address root causes of crime and support long-term positive outcomes.

As part of a reciprocal exchange sponsored by the Columbus Rotary Club, educators from São Paulo, Brazil, were welcomed to Ohio. This group included college professors and English teachers at both primary and secondary levels. Their itinerary included visits to several public and private schools.

We talk with two of the educators, Amanda Piovezani and Elaine Berges. Tracy Najera, a previous podcast guest and Rotarian, joined us.

Amanda and Elaine observed that while multilingualism is common in Europe due to proximity to various countries, it is less prevalent in the United States. They were impressed by several aspects of American education, particularly in career schools where hands-on learning and partnerships with community organizations and companies are emphasized.

One standout observation was the prevalence and integration of the arts in American schools. Amanda admired how art is used to cultivate critical thinking and emotional intelligence, especially among younger students. Both Amanda and Elaine discussed how engaging in art allows students to think creatively and empathetically, fostering essential soft skills such as teamwork and communication.

In both countries, there are legal requirements to provide support for students with special needs. In Brazil, an assistant is assigned to any student with a diagnosed disorder, particularly in public schools, to ensure personalized support. The Brazilian visitors were struck by the smaller class sizes in American public schools compared to Brazil, particularly at the elementary level.

Both countries face challenges with student distractions, particularly regarding cell phone use. Recent legislation in Brazil has prohibited cell phones in primary and high schools, with exceptions for health-related needs. This change was credited with improving students’ social and motor skills, as they engaged more in physical activities and social interactions during breaks.

While it is common in Ohio for schools to have uniformed police officers present, this is not the practice in Brazil. There, police may patrol school neighborhoods but do not typically enter schools unless there is an emergency. The Brazilian educators expressed surprise at the American practice of arming teachers and the prevalence of discussions around gun violence in schools.

The educators discussed how American schools are funded primarily through property taxes, a system that often results in wealthier areas having more resources. In contrast, Brazilian elementary and high schools are funded by municipal governments, while colleges are supported by state or federal funding. Public education in Brazil, including universities, is entirely free.