Music doesn’t exist in a vacuum – it travels, it transforms, and sometimes it takes what isn’t freely given.

Hosts Linton Stephens and Gillian Moore wade into one of the most complex questions in music today: is it okay to use sounds from cultures that are not your own? And, perhaps more importantly, how can you tell the difference between inspiration and appropriation?

Together they dig into Claude Debussy’s Pagodas, written after his encounter with Javanese gamelan music at the 1889 Paris Exhibition, asking whether his East meets West composition is an act of respectful homage or something more problematic. They also explore Antonín Dvořák’s Symphony No.9 (The New World Symphony), shaped by his time in the US and the influence of African American spirituals and Native American music – with key input from his student, Harry T. Burleigh.

This episode of So Hear Me Out is about the grey areas; where admiration meets appropriation, and where intention matters just as much as impact. With a blend of musical excerpts, historical insight, and honest reflection, Gillian and Linton offer a nuanced take on how cultural exchange has shaped classical music – and how to approach it more thoughtfully today.

Listen now for a rich and challenging conversation that proves music can both connect and complicate across cultures.

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In this episode:

00:00 Welcome to So Hear Me Out

00:55 Today's big question: cultural appropriation in music

03:13 Exploring cultural heritage in classical music

11:44 Debussy's tribute to Javanese gamelan

24:01 Dvořák's New World Symphony: honoring American sounds

40:29 Reflecting on cultural inspiration versus appropriation

42:17 Closing thoughts and farewell

Featured works

• Pagodes (1903) Claude Debussy

• Symphony No 9 (1893) Antonín Dvořák

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Credits

Produced by Connor Gani

Executive Producers Emily Dicks and Phil Smith

Sound Mix by Solomon King

A Reduced Listening production for Southbank Centre