Episodes

  • Open-source AI without Jensen
    Nov 14 2026
    The resignation of Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang is a major setback for the US development of an open model ecosystem. Nvidia still has the financial interests in supporting open models, which are to avoid concentration in power among a few customers who would develop their own chips and reduce Nvidia’s profits, but supporting the open ecosystem is a tricky puzzle more than an engineering problem to grind out a solution on.Nvidia’s business operations are famously extremely dependent on Jensen as an operator, so it is a consensus opinion that there are challenges ahead (or even more high-profile departures through chip-smuggling investigations or plain-old sharks circling more poachable talent). Nvidia’s number one goal is to stabilize the ship, deliver to customers in the next 24 months, and prevent implosion. Open models have been one of Jensen’s more ambitious, founder-style bets. He has been flooding the zone with funding in a way that will very likely dry up.Interconnects AI is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.In this period, the open model economy is in its nascency. These are crucial years for establishing use-cases, revenue flow, and motives to continue training the next generation models. I discussed the sensitivity of these early years in my recent talk at Fireworks Forge (slides, recording). The core of the argument is one upside for open models, a reason to be optimistic, and one downside.The positive case is that the open model economy has correctly latched onto “ownership of intelligence” and enterprise post-training as a crucial lane. What is to be determined is exactly how big the downstream market is.The downside is that the true long-term benefit of open models, as truly commoditized intelligence, is very far from realization with compute in such short supply. In the near term, where inference startups are also struggling to get enough chips (because Anthropic and OpenAI are buying so much capacity), there’s little margin competition on open-weight models. If open-source models are also served at giant inference margins, as we learned with DeepSeek’s DeepInfer release, they’re far from a commodity. In this paradigm, the closed labs with better economies of scale and integration from model to datacenter and chips will win. I expanded on this challenge in my recent piece on the open model economy.Together, a lot still needs to go right for open models to be a meaningful economic engine. Jensen’s support, and protection, gave the ecosystem time to figure this out.Jensen was more than a cheerleader. He would stop a lot of s**t from going wrong once early winds were stirring. He was willing to use his power on open models.There’s a major swell in Democratic government funding towards candidates that want to regulate the AI industry, fostering “safety”. Many of these people feel a need to do something and have general opinions that open models are unsafe, while not being educated on the complexities of their benefits. My biggest near-term worry is sloppy regulation at the state level, followed by national regulation. We’ve been one, strong Chinese open-weight model away from a crisis since this summer. It still holds – especially as we enter a new, turbulent equilibrium of cybersecurity. We have not seen a major hack driven by a popular Chinese open-weight model, but it is a matter of when, not if. We need someone to encourage caution and an ecosystem perspective when the “open-weight hawks” come hunting. Knocking over the open-source AI domino today is easy — if done, unwinding the downstream concentration of power, reduction in safety research, and stifling of long-term innovation is far harder. On public data, it looks like balancing long-term innovation versus short term risks, but this is due to how horribly hard it is to measure the open model economy (e.g. the most valuable aspects of it run on private infrastructure). It’s a recurring challenge facing the ecosystem and my work.As a brief aside, the extent to which the media ecosystem is revolving around timing today, rather than exact availability of information, is incredible. All of these Jensen affairs were known, but getting them out at the right time, right after the midterm political swing, took down the king.The same goes for the Jacob Coxon brouhaha this summer. All of that safety culture around top labs was well known, but the right timing around datacenters and the Overton window made it a national issue. This could very well happen at some point for open model safety, as it tends to be harm, risk, or safety-related narratives that drive the modern media algorithms. I cannot imagine my work on open-science driving such a media cycle, because it will never happen.The only lasting solution to this is to incubate a truly frontier open model player in the US. For example, I agree completely with Dylan Patel, CEO...
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    7 mins
  • Was I wrong about open models & cyber risks?
    Oct 30 2026
    Last week coined the term “Black October“ after an onslaught of critical vulnerability disclosures, including PHP2Shell and a long-standing GitLab bug, signified the moment when the cyber risks of AI models started to materialize. It seemed like the news cycle had stabilized a bit when I started writing this, but then there was news about another major crypto security incident at Binance. The crypto industry has a very long history of hacks, so it’s not the best industry to indicate vulnerabilities translating into new societal harm. Still, we are very much still living through the implications of this transition.The best guess for what is happening in the cybersecurity space is that the behind the scenes work has only accelerated, bringing more people and resources in to try and patch the internet — the Wall Street Journal reported that cyber first responders are strained, which seems like the system working. We’re living through this plot of an exponential rise in vulnerabilities, which will take a long time to level off at the top of the sigmoid.A few weeks ago, before the rapid acceleration in vulnerability disclosures and the uptick in reported hacks, I wrote the following take. It’s been getting a pretty consistent barrage of feedback, some hopeless dunk attempts and some reasonable discussion, so I wanted to unpack where I stand.Open-weight Mythos in April would’ve been fine?When Claude Mythos was announced, it was previewed as if it was a new class of cyber weapon, where if it ended up in the wrong hands it would’ve caused mass societal destabilization.It seems like this was wrong.By all measures, GLM-5.3 is the model that crosses that threshold of capability, and there’s little public evidence that much has changed, and we’re over a month out of the model weight release.In fact, I would go further. If Claude Mythos was accidentally released as open-weight, it seems like the world would have been more or less fine. Yes, there would be a clear increase in cybersecurity incidents and it would be bad for society if the model leaked, but it would be a scenario that looks more like an acceleration than a step change in risk.The leading proponents of this new wave of open-weight fear mongering have effectively been making a falsifiable prediction — that the current open-weight models are going to cause substantial, not seen before AI harms by crippling our cyber infrastructure.Based on all the evidence I have, which I’ve unpacked above, they’re set up to be wrong. At least now, after so many years of debating open weight risks, we will start to get some real answers.To start the reflection, I wanted to do more due diligence and track down some receipts on the claim that the AI safety community was reacting as if open-weight Mythos would be an actual disaster, and not just a painful headache. This was distinctly my impression having lived through the online discourse. I’ve gotten criticism that the frontier AI community never said it would be a “true disaster,” but regardless of exactly what they said, it is always about how people hear and internalize your information.Here are some examples of the sort of language that I felt was too exaggerated and from prominent people, which spilled into the public and more importantly federal government perspective that this was a cyber weapon include:* Rob Wiblin, host of the 80,000 hours podcast, on his own podcast (April 10, 2026): “If it fell into the hands of criminals or hostile state cyber actors, it would be an actual disaster.”* Anthropic, in the Project Glasswing announcement blog (April 7, 2026): “Given the rate of AI progress, it will not be long before such capabilities proliferate, potentially beyond actors who are committed to deploying them safely. The fallout—for economies, public safety, and national security—could be severe.”For one that is actually more reasonable, to illustrate the fine lines between correct and exaggerated, from Zvi Mowshowitz (who I don’t agree with a ton of things on) on April 9, 2026: “Claude Mythos would give attackers a cornucopia of zero-day exploits for essentially all the software on Earth … It would be chaos.” To date, this chaos has been confined to those running large-scale digital products, which is good, but could change. I largely still stand by my above writing a few weeks ago, but I’m nervous about it. I’m not a cyber expert, I’m working hard to make the most educated predictions I can. It’s a fine line between “all of our tech companies need to work extra hard to keep us secure” and “public infrastructure is actually going down.” It is very clear as of writing this that there are way more critical vulnerabilities which are being found in popular tools and fixes are being built.For example, Epoch AI recently published a nice post on their internal work using GLM-5.3 to try and find vulnerabilities and chain them into what could be an attack. ...
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    10 mins
  • Artificial Analysis v5 and the benchmarker's dilemma
    Oct 28 2026
    Hill-climbing is easy, knowing what to hill-climb is hard. Making scores go up is expensive, but we have a much clearer playbook for it than we do for creating meaningful benchmarks at the true frontier of AI today.Independent evaluation of language models is under-appreciated in how hard of a task it is. These groups are not just taking current models and certifying their scores, which is a technically involved task. This is their job if AI progress is slow. When AI progress is as fast as it is, the technical details of the job are the routine work part of trying to put a single number on what makes for a good AI model today. The goal is to have a single number that is representative of current models, matching vibe checks, community sentiment, and scientific analysis, while being forward looking enough so that it’s not outdated in 3 months.Everyone building a benchmark faces a sort of paradox. You need your benchmark to reduce to one single number, so that it is easy to discuss, use in reports, and compare models, but every method of aggregating scores comes with meaningful trade-offs. The best scientists need to do this, everyone does. It’s a matter of creating aggregation metrics that you think are most fair, knowing there will always be imperfections.With the amount of money in the AI ecosystem today, the weight of independent evaluation is even higher – you dictate the winners and losers of a trillion dollar market. You also influence some of the models themselves, steering the shape of progress. This is a lot of pressure!My prompt for this article is Artificial Analysis’s recent update to their Intelligence Index, v5. The AA index is the most prominent independent intelligence metric for the latest frontier models, followed in a distant second by Epoch AI’s Capabilities Index (ECI). To date, all of these have been incredibly useful for the community and massively flawed!Interconnects AI is a reader-supported publication. Consider becoming a subscriber.Language models are capable of so much today, and this scope of capabilities is growing quickly. Our era of singular intelligence indices should be phased out soon, but it will take a long time.A summary of AAv5 is below, from their blog post, where they describe it as “reflecting real-world usage today:”Intelligence Index v5 weights:➤ Knowledge Work (25%): AA-Briefcase (15%), AutomationBench-AA (5%), and GDP.pdf (5%)➤ Coding (25%): FrontierCode 2.0 (15%) and Terminal-Bench 4.0 (10%)➤ Science (25%): Terminal-Bench-Science (15%) and CritPt v2 hard subset (10%)➤ General (25%): AA-Omniscience v1.1 15% (10% accuracy, 5% non-hallucination) and HLE-Diamond (10%)Here’s the new ranking of models:The problem with trying to benchmark real-world usage today is that it is extremely jagged, just like the models. The most proven use-case is coding, where open models are far more competitive and likely to keep up. In knowledge work, I’m less confident in open models.At first glance, in aggregate, their model ranking definitely looks reasonable. Still, it shows signs of strain and confusion, as any benchmark will, with GPT 6.1 Terra beating Claude Fable 5.1 on AAv5. Today, some benchmarks measure the absolute frontier of capabilities, playing nicely in open-ended tasks through your favorite harness, which often does take a large model. Some other benchmarks measure certain skills that will be needed of a model in repetitive agentic tasks. I get the feeling that AA is tuning their benchmark more towards the former, a general agentic collaborator, but all of these behaviors overlap.This takes us to the plot going around that prompted me to write this, where they showed the balance of open vs. closed models on the new benchmark. This plot shows 8 closed models beating the best to-be open-weight model, Kimi K3.1 Pro (which isn’t colored blue). This benchmark is taking the opinion of trying to measure where frontier models are moving into, which grows the gap to open models. This is an okay decision to take, but over time as existing workflows of open models become key factors of the economy, it could become a benchmark that misses where the core economic engine of the industry is.Open models’ demise from this seems greatly exaggerated, but I do think the previous index was flattering the open weight models too strongly. Consider this plot from the Kimi K3.1 Pro launch — yes, the open models are strong and useful in some cases, but the best OpenAI and Anthropic models have been a major step ahead in their flexibility and reliability.Some of the evaluations in AAv5 that open models are most behind on are “science” evals like terminal-bench-science and CritPT v2. Open models are behind, but the value proposition was never to compete truly at the frontier. The open model economy will be about* Reducing domains with high market demand for inference to a commodity price of hardware.* Allowing ownership of intelligence, specializing it to ...
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    11 mins
  • Podcast: Kimi K3.1 Pro, the new cyber reality, and Muse musings
    Oct 25 2026
    We — Nathan and Florian — wanted to discuss all the messy trade-offs of a busy week in AI and ask all the pressing questions like:* Why did Kimi K3.1 Pro have a mixed reaction with such incredible benchmarks? Will it be adopted?* Were we wrong about the risks of open-weight models and cybersecurity?* Why do cyber experts discuss recent events so differently than AI experts?* What comes next in the few months? What will change our minds?We will write more about this subject, but wanted to bring you behind the curtain as we aspire to quickly learn more about the cybersecurity industry and trends across the last few years that have been leading us today. We conclude the podcast with some lighter topics, from Muse-maxing to excitement in still hiring junior technical talent. Please send us questions and topics, as we plan to record more of these podcasts going forward.Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. For other Interconnects podcasts, go here. YouTube ↓Chapters* 00:00 Kimi K3.1 Reaction* 08:15 Kimi’s open-weight cyber principles* 11:23 You can hack everything era* 15:54 PHP2Shell, LiteLLM, and the new internet* 24:00 Abliterated APIs, safeguards, and trusted access* 31:41 Anthropic not hiring juniors employees* 36:16 Florian’s Muse addiction* 45:30 Wrap-upLinks we discuss* My thread with Dean Ball about the “boy who cried wolf” story of the frontier labs* Kimi K3.1 Pro announcement blog* Kimi K3.1 Pro on Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index* Kimi K3.1 on Artificial Analysis defensive cyber benchmarks* Program Bench* Open-weight Mythos would’ve been fine take* PHP “hasn’t caused a disaster yet” update* Abliteration.ai serving abliterated models API* Morph serving abliterated DeepSeek via API* Joshua Saxe’s Substack on AI and cybersecurity* Azeem Azhar, “The internet’s Wuhan moment”* Anthropic, “How employment is changing at Anthropic”* LiteLLM security incident reportTranscript00:00:00 Nathan Lambert: We are back with another Interconnects podcast. We are with Florian, eval guy, recently moved to SF. Florian, is Kimi K3.1 Pro, name is a mouthful, going to live up to the benchmark scores, for example on Artificial Analysis, or where is it going to land?00:00:17 Florian Brand: In the past, the Kimi models always lived up to the expectations, but this release is kind of weird compared to the others. I think it is also partially because they are becoming more professional, and the previous model drops were kind of out of nowhere. This time, which also got some criticism, they launched a bigger social media campaign, which allegedly also involved paying people to post about the model without disclosing.00:00:56 Nathan Lambert: I think a lot of companies do this and tell you not to mention it, but it’s a mess. It’s bad form. No company should do it. Essentially, one person tweeted a screenshot of the press instructions for Kimi that said, “Don’t say this is a paid promotion.” And to my knowledge, no one has corroborated it after that.00:01:15 Florian Brand: Yeah, and there are right now a few of these model launches, including by American companies, that are just very obviously astroturfed. We have seen launches where it’s thousands of retweets and a few hundred likes, because it works so well to get the attention. Some of them disclose that it is a paid ad while others don’t. But in general, we have seen the professionalization of model launches over time, and pretty quickly. A year ago, everyone just dropped the model, then patched vLLM afterwards, so no one was actually able to run any of the open models for a while. Now you get all the inference frameworks on day one, you get all the inference providers on day one. Or, which is also what we see more and more, the model creator has a few weeks of exclusive access before they release the weights. And that’s also what’s happening with K3.1 Pro. I think it’s two weeks of exclusive access before they release the model weights.00:02:38 Nathan Lambert: They said the weights would come out by November 4th. And the headline things... I don’t know if I’m going to be able to share screen. I don’t have this set up on this computer. But the headline is this Artificial Analysis number where it’s ahead of GPT-6 Astra. And then if you look at the Kimi K3.1 blog, they have their headline numbers, which are really strong, and then they also have some numbers later on which seem a bit more jagged. I think it was Terminal-Bench Science, which is 20 points behind GPT-6 Astra. I think there were a few others, like ProgramBench. Do you know Terminal-Bench Science and ProgramBench? Are any of these things that people think are important benchmarks for frontier models? Or how do you explain the fact that on Artificial Analysis the model is top, what, three, four? It’s the two latest Claude 5.5 models, Muse Wonder Full, and then Kimi K3.1, which looks crazy. It just looks like ...
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    47 mins
  • Meta shakes up the frontiers, open and closed
    Oct 17 2026
    This has been a week where the balance of American open-weight models took a step change back toward the frontier. Meta took the lead of this charge with Muse Spark Open, which is now the strongest American-made open model by quite some margin, but the addition of Reflection’s first model Beam is also relevant. Without these two models, there would be 20+ open-weight models built and released by Chinese companies better than the best Western models. At the time of writing this, Mistral has also announced a strong model, Mistral Large 4, with an index score of 38 (see below), but its weights are not yet released. There are rumors of a few more strong American open-weight models coming from other organizations too!In many ways, the gap between the best American and Chinese models has been reduced roughly by half. We’ve gone from the best American open models being largely irrelevant to consumers who require the cutting edge of performance, to them being behind but relevant.This paints the picture of the cut-throat, competitive nature of the frontier model business. Reflection and Mistral announced their model scores and Meta dropped the weights of a smarter model before these other two labs could get their own weights out. All of these models are competing with Chinese models released months ago, where the industry is collectively asking — where have Kimi and Zhipu AI been since the releases of GLM-5.3 and Kimi K3 on Aug. 18th and Jul. 16th, respectively?That is a very nuanced question, which I’ll dig into another time. Today’s piece is focused on Meta’s turnaround, what Muse Spark Open means for the ecosystem, and the balance of power across Western frontier labs.Why Muse Spark Open should take off — and why it may notOne thing we see again and again at Interconnects through our open model analysis is that Western open-weight models get astonishingly more adoption than Chinese models with the same performance-to-size footprint (even though the Chinese models usually come out first)! Muse Spark Open is landing into this environment, at the same time as when open-ended LLM agents are finally real (~GLM 5.2 capabilities and on). Riding off a rapid increase in performance of Chinese models, the open ecosystem has been living through an acceleration in demand. The inference providers are rapidly scaling, the open post-training economy is forming, and countless enterprises are looking to own their intelligence. Muse Spark Open’s performance falls somewhere above GLM 5.2, near DeepSeek V4.1 Flash, and behind GLM 5.3 or Kimi K3. It should be squarely “good enough” to slot right into this.For some background, from the Muse Spark Open model card on Hugging Face:Muse Spark Open is an 816B total/42B active parameter open weights model with a context window of 1M tokens. Built for coding and agentic work, Muse Spark Open is natively multimodal. This open weights version has additional safety post-training to make it more robust against misuse as a standalone model without system guardrails. We recommend deploying Muse Spark Open as part of a broader AI system, with additional guardrails suited to the specific use case.Here’s the distribution of the various Muse models on the Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index.This is included to loop back to the original model card snippet. It was shared that this open-weight model underwent additional safety training to prepare for this open release. Many observers saw this release as potentially a model that was “broken” during the safety training, as it came out after Muse Spark 1.3. In reality, this was much more likely a safety tune of Muse Spark 1.2, which would only be a 1 point drop on Artificial Analysis to shore up safety behaviors. When Meta released Muse Glimmer, the 30B agentic model, Alex Wang said that they were preparing to release the Muse Spark 1.2 model as open weights, which fits with the above.If anything will hold Muse Spark Open back, it’ll be the specific license they designed for it. In summary, this custom license has pretty much all of the restrictive license behaviors we’ve seen (and criticized here) in the last few years of building with open models. They are as follows:* Users of the models in products must display “Built with Muse” on their products. Meta did this with Llama, and Kimi has tried it, but almost no one complies.* There is a revenue-gating factor, where companies that make more than $20M per month across their entire business deploying the model need a separate license with Meta. Other prominent open model providers are doing this too, in order to set up revenue share agreements for re-selling inference.* Muse Spark Open makes you agree to an acceptable use policy, which in the true “open source software” corner of the world makes this model extremely not open-source.* All of the above applies to outputs from the model as well, and derivatives, so there is legal ambiguity if you can safely use the ...
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    12 mins
  • The Cyber Risk Discourse is Broken
    Oct 6 2026
    I’ve had one too many discussions on the cyber risks of open models — where someone assumes that either banning open models happens in a silo (and bad actors will somehow actually be stopped) or that China is a threat and doesn’t care about AI safety — that I feel we’re going to end up making policy decisions that both limit American AI competitiveness and increases long-term cyber risk. I feel like we’re locked in on a path of lose-lose situation, unless people embrace nuance, trade-offs, and scary realities.Much has been written about the views of various players in this debate, which I summarize as follows:* Open weight models pose an untenable risk to society’s functionality, occupied by frontier lab leadership and the national security community in the U.S.* Western voices saying open weight models are necessary for defense and banning them will make the world less safe, occupied by AI risk moderates to different extremes. I include myself in this bucket, along with Hugging Face’s perspective after the OpenAI incident, and others like Joshua Saxe.* Chinese companies continuing to release open-weight models with strong cyber capabilities, who are making decisions based on the risk assessments of their society and government.This list is also organized by volume or clarity of message in the Western AI ecosystem. The risk-focused discussions have been disproportionately visible, including pieces of work which I view as very detrimental to potential of engaging across assumed party lines on this issue. There’s also very little substantive engagement trying to understand how Chinese companies assess risk — rather, mostly arguments that border on ad hominem attacks like “Chinese labs don’t care about safety.” Interconnects AI is a reader-supported publication. Consider becoming a subscriber.The delusions of the anti open-weight allianceThe most recent publication from the “open-weights are dangerous” crowd was the report by Anthropic on the risks of GLM-5.3 as an offensive cyber tool. The problem with this is not the technical research they did, which is largely reasonable, but the failure to engage on more cross cutting questions like: What happens if we ban open models due to cyber risks or why do Chinese companies deem these models safe to release?These questions, which I’ll come back to, are the ones we need to answer to understand the ecosystem perspective on current AI risks. All policy actions happen in a multi-piece puzzle, where the shape of risk can be changed, but it is rare that you get a universally better outcome. They are all trade-offs.This sort of solipsistic writing by Anthropic fits very closely to another type of discourse I’m hearing about regularly that is determining the fate of open models and AI broadly — classified briefings. I’ve had many discussions with people who say something like “Look, I’m pro open models, but if you’re seeing what I’m seeing, it’s an onslaught out there due to [XYZ Chinese open-weight model] and we need to act.” This perspective flies in the face of public information, where to date closed models have been documented as the cause of most existing cyber attacks. As someone who tries to make grounded predictions, the evidence of numerous attacks from OpenAI models is the only data I have on the shape of cyber risks (or, you can broaden the scope to include all of FelonyBench). There are a few possible explanations, and it’ll take years to get to the true answer: * Maybe open model weights and closed model APIs (with some safe guards) are both far closer to being easy to mis-use, rather than API models being closer to safe. The trope "Open Dangerous, Closed Safe" may be closer to "Open Unsafe, Closed Unsafe."* Maybe there are far fewer bad actors who are willing to use AI models for “loud” cyber attacks that target crucial infrastructure in the US or powerful and underprepared institutions. Closed models have stronger capabilities and stronger safeguards (in theory), but the stronger capabilities part could matter more in net harm if the safeguards on both are porous. * I have a lot more to learn about how the cybersecurity ecosystem works, so I won’t support this full-heartedly as one of my current recommendations, but I think it’s at least a reasonable argument that open weight models as a diffusion tool for cyber defense could be the best tool we have to prevent harm over the next few years. There are many domains, e.g. sensitive government agencies, where open-weight models are the only tools that can be deployed in the near-term on air-gapped networks.Lots of this situation seems like the messy reality being hard to pin down, where the logical limits are clearer. I may agree with the simple reality that closed models are far safer in the limit, as a technical tool with more layers of protection, but they may actually be causing more harm in the near term because of how accessible model APIs ...
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    9 mins
  • Debating RSI, the US-China Gap, and Jaggedness with JS Denain of Epoch AI
    Sep 22 2026
    This episode is with Jean-Stanislas “JS” Denain of Epoch AI, who leads their Insights Team and is one of the people I find myself debating the state and trajectory of AI with more and more. We’ve had follow-on discussions of many of my favorite recent posts online and/or in private, so I wanted to dig into the nuance in a public episode.A big takeaway of this podcast is how JS and I both have so much uncertainty with exactly where we are heading, and this was our best effort at stating our observations today. Chapters / topics include:* 00:00 Predictions for RSI* 18:15 The role of robotics in an AI acceleration* 24:20 How far behind are Chinese models?* 27:39 Does distillation explain the gap?* 40:58 What Chinese job postings reveal about their labs* 48:13 Are open or closed models safer?* 58:10 How Epoch AI ticks* 1:00:55 What a frontier post-training recipe looks likeEnjoy!More from JS: Epoch AI profile and writing, X, LinkedInListen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and where ever you get your podcasts. For other Interconnects interviews, go here.Transcript00:00:00 Nathan Lambert: I’m here with JS Denain, who is a senior researcher at Epoch AI. He leads the insights team. He is one of the people who I feel like I get the best feedback on my writing from, whether it’s from US-China AI capabilities, now RSI. And I just wanted to open this discussion and honestly go deeper with him, trying to understand how he thinks about these various things. And I think you have a very useful, moderate point of view, which I feel like you’re probably a step further into what would be called faster scenarios for AI progress. But let’s get into this, and it’s like, what measurements do you think OpenAI and Anthropic are seeing when we get all these proclamations on RSI happening very imminently?00:00:47 JS Denain: Yeah. I think, so there’s the measurements they’ve published, right? So, OpenAI and Anthropic both had blog posts, I mean, Anthropic two at least, on the effect AI has on accelerating AI progress. I think at least the things they publish, I don’t think are super strong evidence of imminent self-sustaining acceleration AI capabilities, or full automation of the job of AI researcher. But I think the kinds of things we see are, I think probably the most striking thing I saw in the OpenAI blog post was increasing usage of AI systems in model deployment, like the increase in spending on Codex that we saw. And it’s kind of unclear how exactly to interpret this, because maybe it’s a measurement artifact where they’re only looking at Codex, but in fact, there was a bunch of ChatGPT usage before from the researchers. But overall, that plot, for example, just shows a 2X a month increase in Codex spending by researchers, and that does seem to me to be some evidence of they’re getting a lot of value out of this probably. I don’t think this is strong evidence that in six months we have a software intelligence explosion.00:01:57 Nathan Lambert: Do you think this is the same? So, what is the information they have internally relative to what we have? And this is obviously hypothetical. We don’t have this internal information. Because I get the sense that a lot of people are more scared in their updates from the labs than the information we have. And I try to take this very seriously of, what will they be seeing that is making the acceleration of risk comments go faster, and how much of this is material evidence versus how cultures evolve over time? And I’m much more interested in evidence.00:02:29 JS Denain: Yeah. So two things. I think, first of all, I guess I don’t think, I don’t know, right? I don’t have full information here. I don’t currently think that either there’s some specific thing that people at OpenAI or Anthropic are seeing right now that we don’t have access to that warrants being way more freaked out about this. I also don’t think that... I think the public evidence we have right now, more general on AI progress and just a priori case for this being an important dynamic, I think is enough. I think to care about this particular dynamic of AI accelerating AI progress, that being a big deal and worth tracking. And then it’s kind of unclear what the urgency is of when the feedback loop really kicks in. So, basically on the what is there on the inside that people have access to, I could give examples of kinds of metrics, right, they could be looking at. It’s plausible that we have access to the capabilities of AI systems, but internal teams have their KPIs, and maybe they’re seeing compute multipliers in the pre-training team or other kinds of metrics that people are tracking going crazy. And then the combination of this plus some intuitions of how the different outputs of different teams combine yields a prediction on the trend in actual performance of the end AI systems. So that could be an early warning sign. It’s unclear to me that the recent discourse we’...
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    1 hr and 5 mins
  • The current balance of power in open models
    Sep 21 2026
    I was recently invited to brief a group of Congressional members and staff on the state of open-weight models in the lens of U.S.-China competition. I’m sharing my prepared remarks as a state of the union on open models that is accessible to a broader audience.Interconnects AI is a reader-supported publication. Consider becoming a subscriber.Recap: What is an open source v. open-weight vs. closed model?Open language models are AI models where their weights are publicly available for inspection or downstream use. These are most often contrasted to so-called “closed” AI models. Closed models offer access only through Application Programming Interfaces (APIs) that developers can use to directly query a model, like GPT-4 or Claude Opus 4.5, or through products, like ChatGPT and Claude Code.Open language models primarily are bucketed into two categories, open-weight and open-source models. Open-weight models are the most common form, such as popular models like Meta’s Llama, Alibaba’s Qwen, Google’s Gemma, or DeepSeek’s models. These models are governed by licenses, governing documents dictating what is allowed with downstream use, and are often accompanied by inference code in libraries such as Transformers, VLLM, SGLANG, etc. Since about April 2025, Chinese AI companies have been the clear leader in open-weight models.True “open-source” models are similar to these, as they include the weights, licenses, and inference code, but they also include the complete information needed to reproduce the model – the training code and training data. The most prominent open-source models have been built in the United States, led recently by the Allen Institute for AI’s Olmo models that I helped build in my recent 2.5 years there. The other prominent open-source models are also built by American non-profit organizations, including OpenAthena’s Marin models and EleutherAI’s Pythia models.Open-weight, open-source, and every other label for a model – including closed models primarily offered via an API – exist on a spectrum. For example, Nvidia’s Nemotron models are far more open than most open-weight models, releasing large quantities of their training data under permissive licenses, but they’re not fully open-source because they do not release all of the data. Closed models also exist on a spectrum based on what information the API reveals and the terms of use.The state of competition between American and Chinese open-weight models (unit economics, technical capabilities, etc.)We are living in a world where GLM-5.2 and Kimi K3, some of the latest, leading Chinese models, have enacted a step change in the commercial viability of open models — crossing a similar threshold in agentic capabilities that Anthropic’s Claude Code crossed in December of 2025.America was the early leader in open language models, primarily through Meta’s Llama models, which were used extensively across research and commercial tasks. Chinese open-weight models surpassed American open-weight models in these two key areas about 18 months ago. The simple metric showing this is Hugging Face Downloads, where China took the lead in July of 2025 primarily through the success of Alibaba’s Qwen models. I personally maintain tools to track this data, and since I first published the American Truly Open Models (ATOM) Project in August of 2025, China’s download lead has grown to about 1.6B – with a total of 3.2B downloads, twice that of America’s total.On popular capabilities benchmarks, such as the Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index (AAII), the Chinese open-weight models have a clear lead over American counterparts. The top three Chinese models as of writing this on September 14, 2026 are Z.ai’s GLM-5.3 and GLM-5.3-Flash and Moonshot AI’s Kimi K3 with scores of 45, 42, and 44 respectively. By comparison, the leading American models are Thinking Machines’ Inkling and Inkling Small, both with a score of 26, and Nvidia’s Nemotron 3 Ultra, with a score of 23. The top American models were released in June and July of 2026, and are updated less frequently than their Chinese counterparts. For example, Chinese labs released models with scores above these American models 2-6 months before the American companies got there (e.g. GLM-5 or DeepSeek V4 Pro). There is a trend of more American companies releasing models, including names like Arcee AI, Poolside and IBM, but they are not rapidly closing this performance gap. Other benchmarks tell a similar story.Together, Chinese open-weight models are approximately 2-5 months behind the closed American frontier, with the open-weight American models being approximately 6-9 months behind the likes of OpenAI and Anthropic. The Chinese labs are closest in tasks with clear user demand, such as agentic coding, and further behind on more open-ended scientific tasks, such as physics or biology.The reasons why Chinese labs can produce these strong models, despite having fewer ...
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    18 mins