This is my first conversation with Chris Fortier, Vice President of the Web 3.0 company Rally. It begins when Chris questions me on what he calls my "natural forces" theory, which invokes two nonrandom forces of evolution: natural selection and natural reward. Relevant to this theory, we discuss the concept of teleology, especially as it relates to evolutionary adaptation and experimental evolution in microorganisms. We then review the "major transition” framework for classifying evolutionary innovation in terms of levels of organization, cooperation, and information storage and transmission, and how they relate to the Web 1/2/3 scheme. We then forge analogies between the cooperative and informational problems facing planetary life and humans operating in the technoworld, with reference to game theoretical dilemmas. In the latter half of the conversation, I tell Chris about my project investigating the economics of science and how to make science more innovative by altering its funding structure. Chris immediately grasps my approach to the problem and speculates about a solution. We then discuss what Chris is doing at Rally and I query him about its economics and governance. Finally, I tell Chris about my proposed solution and Chris is ready with examples from the cryptoworld that support my approach. At the end, Chris answers my question of how Rally itself stands to profit along with the creators within it. This conversation is an explosion of dynamism, where a discussion of “natural forces” illuminates the phenomena of nature, technology, and science.