Tell Your Execs: AI Rankings Are BS (with Rand Fishkin) cover art

Tell Your Execs: AI Rankings Are BS (with Rand Fishkin)

Tell Your Execs: AI Rankings Are BS (with Rand Fishkin)

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You know the zero click problem is real. But how do you get your CEO or CMO on board — and how do you prove it's working once they are? In this episode, I chat with Rand Fishkin to talk measurement frameworks, his new AI visibility research, and why correlation (not causation) is the name of the game.

Guest: Rand Fishkin, Co-founder and CEO of SparkToro

Key takeaway:

Zero Click Marketing is not about giving up on sales or clicks. It’s about accepting that influence often happens before the click — and measuring that influence more honestly.


Timestamps:
00:00 "All the things that happen in a zero click environment will eventually lead to the same thing that clicks led to"
01:13 What do you tell an executive who believes in zero click but doesn't know what to do next?
04:20 How to start thinking about measurement when there's no single dashboard to point to
07:41 The double standard: executives are comfortable with fuzzy measurement for TV and display ads, but demand perfect attribution for content, influencers, and PR
11:02 Where your competitors refuse to invest leaves more room for you
14:07 AI hype as a Trojan horse to convince skeptics: if you believe AI is the future, what's the logical conclusion of AI summarizing content?
17:22 AI as both the cause of and a mental model for zero click
19:14 Rand and Gumshoe's AI visibility research: Rand noticed AI gives different answers to the same prompt every time, which made him skeptical of the entire AI rank-tracking industry
24:12 The big finding: you'd need ~1,000 prompts to get the same ranked answer — rank tracking is unreliable. But brand visibility percentage is real.
29:08 AI visibility as a trackable indicator for zero click marketing success
33:36 Myth busting: zero click marketing ≠ zero sales, and it's not just a Google problem — it's every platform

This episode is brought to you by SparkToro — the audience research tool that helps you find where your audience spends time, what they read, watch, and listen to, and who influences them. Learn more at sparktoro.com. And be sure to check out Gumshoe.ai for search and AI visibility.

Edited by Share Your Genius (shareyourgenius.com)

Learn more about Zero Click Marketing and Amanda Natividad:

  • zeroclickmarketing.co
  • amandanat.com
  • Amanda's LinkedIn and Instagram
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